Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 9th, 2012, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc
You are paranoid.
Yes, I am paranoid to know that God punishes Trinitarians for their blasphemy with increasing severity yet nobody understand this.
:thumb
Quote:
Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
Do you think that the Father gave Trinitarians the Holy Spirit so they could butcher one another by millions?
Quote:
Have you asked the Father for the Holy Spirit?
Yes, long ago.
Anyway, I like to see that you mention the Father.
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Signs and wonders and divers miracles confirm the gospel. If you only tell the paryletic "son thy sins be forgiven thee" that is all he will recieve, you have not told him ALL the gospel, you have witheld part of the counsel of God...whether that seems right in your eyes you must judge.
The full message is "that people may KNOW that the Son of man has power to forgive sins RISE UP, take up thy bed and walk" and the people all glorified God.
You recieve everything from God EXACTLY the same way, you read His will, you BELIEVE His will and you petition Him according to His will.
Whether forgiveness or healing or help of any kind.
How can we discern God's will?
Everything Jesus did IS God's will. He turned nobody away.
We aren't Jesus, nor are we the Apostles. We are to preach the Gospel to the lost. God still heals...He still works miracles, but now it's through the power of prayer not through miracle workers.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
July 9th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerzy
On the other hand, a fallen angel Satan is an old Egyptian pagan fable adapted by Christianity.
Therefore, either you show written that Satan is a fallen angel or drop this blasphemous fable.
We aren't Jesus, nor are we the Apostles. We are to preach the Gospel to the lost. God still heals...He still works miracles, but now it's through the power of prayer not through miracle workers.
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You are fundamentally wrong...it is not by our power or piety [prayer] it is by KNOWING what God's will is, God's will is revealed in the gospel. We cannot recieve ANYTHING from God until we KNOW it is His will, this is why it MUST be based upon His word .
"Himself bare our sicknesses and carried our infirmities" That is every bit as good as "Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree"
Unless healing is announced with the same assurance of faith as forgiveness as something that was purchased by Christ on the cross it cannot be recieved with sure assurance.
This is why they strut and playact because they are exploiting a vacuum left by evangelicals who have deserted the field.
If Luther had preached "the sick will be healed by faith" as well as "the just shall live by faith" [and of COURSE I am not criticising Luther] but we would have seen a different reformation.
It is not for YOU to decide which is easier or more important to say "son thy sins be forgiven thee" I guarantee if the church had been more diligent in the second part "arise take up thy bed and walk" the church would be in better shape than she is.
It is time to stop telling God what is right and wrong.
JESUS was only talking to those Apostles at Pentecost and Paul.
We as Future Christians have the Work of spreading the Gospel
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1 ¶ Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2 posts from a very intelligent and sincere brother in the Lord ...
Understanding church history is a personal passion and one that I have invested much time and resources into. If you want proof of what I stated in my previous post simply check out any Church history book from an unbiased source. I personally have discovered that many historians of the Reformed persuasion have attempted to alter church history through their writings and teachings. An example of such is how many modern Reformed historians credit Jonathan Edwards as the driving component of the first great awakening when in truth he had very little involvement. In fact, it was primarily George Whitefield whom God used to launch and sustain the first great awakening however, because of his many confrontations with various leaders with the overly Calvinistic Church of England as well as his close affiliation with John Wesley, many have attempted to distort history.
As for the gifts of the Spirit, while the gifts of the Spirit may have seen a sharp decline after the first century, there are many historical references of the gifts still being in use on into the 4th century. The reason for the decrease was not because the Apostles had died but rather because error became more and more prevalant as the early church became predominantly gentile. Many would attempt to interpret scripture from a Greek, Alexandrian or some other early eastern mindset due to the church losing it's familiarity with it's Hebrew heritage. If you hold to the idea that Continuationism is a fairly new idea then think again. Modern Continuationism is almost as old as the protestant reformation itself.
… you have been heavily influenced by and hold to a "Reformed" perspective. Historically speaking, due to their heavy handed views on the sovereignty of God and the predestination of man, those who hold to such views have always been somewhat anti-evangelical and have persecuted the Evangelical movement since it's conception. Their disdain for Evangelicalism was so bad that they not only harassed & slandered to good name of those God used to spread the Gospel during that time, they had actually attempted to murder some of them. Once the Evangelical movement became established and it evolved into the Missionary movement, it wasn't long before the gifts of the Spirit began to manifest. It is no surprise that those of the Reformed persuasion, who up until this point were Cessationists, quickly demonized these gifts by teaching Matthew 7:22 out of it's intended context and insisting that all who operate in such gifts were headed for hell. Historically speaking, if one would collect the number of brutal acts of Godlessness that members of the Reformed perspective have committed against other Christians over the centuries, one could easily build a case against the Reformed movement suggesting that is they who are actually under the influence of the devil. In fact, in the 1800s one man did plead such a case and, while history seems to suggest that he may have been the most successful evangelist of all time, he has also been the most villified Evangelical of all time by those of the Reformed persuasion. With all due respect, you are an intelligent man. While you profess no allegiance to any one particular belief system and have even gone so far as to criticize those who hold to a certain Reformed perspective (ie. Calvinism), anyone with a trained eye can easily tell which side you take your stand. While you may not profess Cessationism, it is obvious that you have been heavily influenced by it thus let their be no confusion, for all tense and purposes, you do stand on their side. Of course, it is no secret that I stand in stark opposition. Please don't mistake this post as some sort of personal attack. It is not meant to be. Since you implied that those who manifest the gifts of the Spirit are demonic, I simply felt that a brief explanation of the origins of such beliefs is warranted.
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 10th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon
I already told you I agreed with you on this.
LA
Yes, you did but some of your posts are not clear and I usually don't pay much attention to whom I reply.
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 10th, 2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totton Linnet
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I know what I got, if you had anything worth you would be speaking about that instead picking holes in everyone else.
Perhaps I have more than you think but want people to look at God’s word not at me.
You, on the other hand, prove your vanity with each post.
JESUS was only talking to those Apostles at Pentecost and Paul.
We as Future Christians have the Work of spreading the Gospel
-----------------------------------------------------------
1 ¶ Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
*
These signs will follow they that believe, so they who were mightier in the Spirit get all the help and we who are like dish rags in comparison have to rely on our ability to persaude.
Look how foolish this is, you say He commissioned US to preach the gospel.... when? was it not in the same breath as He told us to lay hands on the sick and cast out devils? so the first 10 words of the commission applies to us as well as them and the remaining 27 words only to the apostles?
It was the world they turned upside down, not common sense.
From an Administrator in a non-denominational Christian Forum …
I was once a Cessationist and I BATTLED AGAINST this topic... all I was doing was battling against God. I surrendered... finally surrendered and a lot of what I wrote above is what He showed me and pointed out to me. I ignored and refused to accept all those scriptures and events I mention in this post while I was in bondage to the Cessationist doctrine(s). All those chapters might as well been removed from all the Bible's I had. When I surrendered, first seeing, and then understanding, and then accepted the truth of those scriptures followed. Until I threw away that man-made Cessationist doctrine... what God did in my heart "was not possible." The "cliche" about having "one's eye's opened"... well... when eyes ARE opened to the truth... they can't be closed again. My eyes were not opened and that cessationist doctrine ENSURED that they stayed closed to the truth of God's Word. Thus the very HARD period of surrender began some years ago.
I posted:
Almost everyone turns a blind eye to what God has been doing in the way of signs/wonders/miracles.
But, at least they refrain from attributing it all to Satan.
And he responded to me:
I've raised this fact in many other threads. People don't understand if they CAN'T call a s/w/m of satan... they need to REALLY look into their heart and ask God... WHY not? This is one of the MAIN elements in God leading me OUT of the cessationist bondage until the day I was finally free of it. Then I was truly able to "see" what was false (of satan), fake (of man), and what was real (of God).
And he responded to someone:
What about the TRUE s/w/m of God that are happening out there in the world... can you address THEM at all? Or are your ONLY gonna discuss the false/fake out there in the world and thus... IGNORE the true s/w/m and REFUSE to discuss the true s/w/m of God happening today. Tell me... with all the examples you gave above... if you witnessed any, would you immediately call the s/w/m accomplished in your presence... OF the devil? Think about that question seriously HARD, it is a very serious question.
And he responded to someone else:
Are you going to discuss the true s/w/m that God is doing today? Because if you are, then we will BE ABLE to discuss the scrip-tures. See here is the problem... if you will not acknowledge that God is doing s/w/m today, then to discuss those scriptures in accordance with what God is doing today, is impossible. I made it clear... there ARE false and fake s/w/m today done by the devil (false) and by man (fake). I can discuss about them and also discuss all the scriptures. However, there are TRUE s/w/m today done by God... if you can discuss these s/w/m then it will be possible to discuss all those scriptures in accordance with the truth of the Bible. If you will NOT acknowledge God continues to allow s/w/m... then the only thing you will discuss is the doctrine you have chosen to believe in and what that doctrine means and what "its" truth is. This means it will be impossible to discuss the truth of the scriptures with you in relation with what God continues to do on a miraculous level today. So let me know what you honestly plan to do.
Another response of his:
NO... the point is this. If you witness a "supernatural" miracle, would you AUTOMATICALLY call the miracle "OF" satan as the source? If you would not or CANNOT... then what value is the doctrine you believe?
So the question is VERY straight forward... would you call ANY supernatural miracle today, "of satan"?
If you would not or cannot, then... WHY not?
Another response of his:
"Fake" is NOT supernatural... stop changing the topic so you don't have to answer.
Any SUPERNATURAL miracle (not any fake so called miracle)... If you witness a "supernatural" miracle, would you AUTOMATICALLY call the miracle "OF" satan as the source? We have established many times, that satan does false supernatural miracles and man does FAKE shows that they call miraculous... if that is all you will discuss, it is CLEAR you are using this as a tactic NOT to answer the question that is asked. Wouldn't it just be easier to say something like... I'm not gonna answer the question and I will also stop wasting everyone's time avoiding the question.
A second testimony from the Administrator
I've given testimony all throughout this forum of people being healed, the testimony is ignored. Just 2 months ago or a person came to the altar who was wearing an ankle brace. Limping they came forward. While I prayed I was told by God to anoint the person's ankle and pray for healing. They left and I immediately continued to pray over others at the altar. Later I saw this person had removed the brace and was not limping... dude, I was crying once I saw that and praised God. I witnessed this also when others prayed over injured people (this is the past 2 years), one threw their cane and the other walked away from their walker, then ran around the church, they left carrying the folded up walker on their shoulder because they wanted to not only give testimony of their healing but also show the "proof". That cane, lay on the altar till the church clean up crew came on their Thursday and asked what to do with the cane... they were told to just toss it out with the rest of the trash. As a matter of fact, that person who had the problem since childhood was playing basketball with their children, running around the court all the week after God healed them.
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 11th, 2012, 10:35 AM
God can do whatever, whenever, in whatever manner and for whatever purpose/reason.
One has to read De 13:1-3 to begin wit.
One has to know the Father the only one true God and His power (not the pagan stupid idol Satan) to follow.
One has to do it the way Jesus and the apostles did.
On the other hand, one has to run away from the circus-like shows where pagan crafts and modern mass hypnosis have been applied.
If the gifts have ceased ...
then a Scripture like this one has no relevance for the believer
(other than the believer in the first century or so):
Matthew 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
If there are no more working of miracles, who are these poor folks Jesus is referring to.
Is the Word of God only relevant to the first century or is it everlasting?
Why would Jesus warn about the "gifts" being useless without "fruit" if there are no more gifts?
Is it fair that only the first century "fake" saints miss Christ "in that day"?
Another example is ...
Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Unless one is a preterist and believes this prophecy was fulfilled in the first century (70AD),
you would have to conclude that before His Second Coming there will be false christs that will exhibit great miracles. How is it possible for the elect to be even close to being fooled by them?
If you do not believe in miracles, signs, wonders its not possible to be fooled when you see them occur, they would have to be obviously from the devil since God stopped doing them in the first century. Simply put, there has to be "real" prophets and "real" miracles occurring to be fooled by "false" prophets and "lying" wonders. No one counterfeits a $3 dollar bill, they only counterfeit
a real bill. Similarly, in order for the devil to fool anyone, there must be a real thing.
If there are no real miracles, prophets, etc. there cannot be false ones in existence.
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
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