ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
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Truth is the ideal, a concept of what corresponds one-to-one with Reality.
As a spirit, or body of mental thought, it is "holy," or separated from all the lies and fantasies about what is real and what is not.
The Law does inforn us of a truth in a particular case when we break that Law.
But the Law (the whole Bible, in fact), is a guide and ruler to make us aware of our errors and to encourage us to face the Truth.
It is not the Ideal of Truth, itself.
If you read John 17:17, Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God,
which, according to Psalm 147:19,20 was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. So, according to Isaiah 2:2,3, if the nations
are interested in being instructed in the Truth, the address must be Zion/Jerusalem which is an euphemism for the Jewish People.
It is not my job to convince Jews of anything, especially something I don't espouse: this "the Elijah" nonsense.
Elijah was a person, not a title.
As far as John being a prophet, "yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet." Mat 11:9.
As for the 7 miracles, those are performed at the end time. Elijah has yet to perform them.
Two points:
1 - What could be more than a prophet in the case of John?
2 - According to the Q'ohelet in Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, "The living know that they are to die, but the dead no longer know anything. There is no further recompense for them, because all memory of them is lost. For them, love and hatred and rivalry have long since perished. They will never again have part in anything that is done under the sun. The end time for Elijah was a long time ago. There is no more miracle he could perform, therefore.
That is why I discount Elijah as a man, but credit him as God.
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You must be joking! Definitely, you must. You are the first from the
"Messianic Judaism" religious denomination with such a heretic idea.
Not enough to make of Jesus a god; now, even Elijah was a god! Is it
another act of vandalism of Judaism by Christianity or what?
Ben
I must remind you that I have previously and consistently equated the spirit of Truth as the indwelling entity, in all cases, whether we speak of Enoch, Melzedek, Elijah, or Jesus.
Truth existed long begore Abraham or Jesus, and in the very beginning was the express image of the ever unfolding Reality which is the father of the Truth that forms in His wake.
Since, for men, we can not distinguish between Truth and the fact of Reality, we have no other choiuce but to asume one is the other and visa versa.
This is the foundation for the concept of Trinity.
TRINITY:
Our Lord is (1) Truth, in whose (2) Spirit of mind we must commit our lives, in order to face (3) Father Nature, The Almighty, the Reality, within which we all exist.
If you read John 17:17, Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God,
...which, according to Psalm 147:19,20 was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. So, according to Isaiah 2:2,3, if the nations are interested in being instructed in the Truth, the address must be Zion/Jerusalem which is an euphemism for the Jewish People.
Ben
Isn't that exactly the same message as found in the New Testament?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, (the essence of Truth), that whosoever believeth, (Romans 1:16), in him, (i.e.; Truth), should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
I must remind you that I have previously and consistently equated the spirit of Truth as the indwelling entity, in all cases, whether we speak of Enoch, Melzedek, Elijah, or Jesus.
Truth existed long begore Abraham or Jesus, and in the very beginning was the express image of the ever unfolding Reality which is the father of the Truth that forms in His wake.
Since, for men, we can not distinguish between Truth and the fact of Reality, we have no other choiuce but to asume one is the other and visa versa.
This is the foundation for the concept of Trinity.
TRINITY:
Our Lord is (1) Truth, in whose (2) Spirit of mind we must commit our lives, in order to face (3) Father Nature, The Almighty, the Reality, within which we all exist.
According to Mark 12:29, when Jesus was confronted with a question about the greatest of the commandments
he said that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. He was only confirming the Jewish truth in Deut. 6:4 which is the Jewish daily confession that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord.
Isn't that exactly the same message as found in the New Testament?
Not exactly.
Quote:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, (the essence of Truth), that whosoever believeth, (Romans 1:16), in him, (i.e.; Truth), should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Here is another aspect of John 3:16: And God so loved the world that, to teach Mankind what love is, He became a Jew. That's a truth that every single Christian believes in it, but refuses to behave as such. To start with, because of the NT false charge that Jews have killed Jesus, a serial persecution has been developed since the Church got organized by Constatine in 310 ACE and up to this very day, through pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition, and last but not least, the Holocaust of only 70 years ago, when millions of Jewish lives have been destroyed. I guess God made a mistake. Mankind was not ready to be taught what love is.
Quote:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
According to who, the gospel of Jesus or the gospel of Paul? According to the gospel of Jesus, it was to the Jews only and not first. Read Mat. 10:5,6. Who replaced to the Jews only with to the Jews first? Obviously, it was Paul who was famous for his policy of Replacement Theology.
Posted by dave3712
I must remind you that I have previously and consistently equated the spirit of Truth as the indwelling entity, in all cases, whether we speak of Enoch, Melzedek, Elijah, or Jesus.
Truth existed long begore Abraham or Jesus, and in the very beginning was the express image of the ever unfolding Reality which is the father of the Truth that forms in His wake.
Since, for men, we can not distinguish between Truth and the fact of Reality, we have no other choiuce but to asume one is the other and visa versa.
This is the foundation for the concept of Trinity.
TRINITY:
Our Lord is (1) Truth, in whose (2) Spirit of mind we must commit our lives, in order to face (3) Father Nature, The Almighty, the Reality, within which we all exist.
///
According to Mark 12:29, when Jesus was confronted with a question about the greatest of the commandments
he said that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. He was only confirming the Jewish truth in Deut. 6:4 which is the Jewish daily confession that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord.
Ben
Christ was right.
The ever unfolding Reality that sires Truth in its wake is the ONLY God.
Man's ability to discern Reality by means of forming its image (i.e.; Truth) inside his mind is the ONLY way he can actually behave sanely, in accord with this God.
By responding appropriately to his image of Truth, man is essentially worshipping Reality as his God.
Here is another aspect of John 3:16: And God so loved the world that, to teach Mankind what love is, He became a Jew. That's a truth that every single Christian believes in it, but refuses to behave as such. To start with, because of the NT false charge that Jews have killed Jesus, a serial persecution has been developed since the Church got organized by Constatine in 310 ACE and up to this very day, through pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition, and last but not least, the Holocaust of only 70 years ago, when millions of Jewish lives have been destroyed. I guess God made a mistake. Mankind was not ready to be taught what love is.
Ben
...to teach Mankind what love is, He became a Jew...
Are you suggesting that the Jews of 32AD already knew?
Are you implying that the Jews of today know?
My take is that God became The Jew who would make the message of Love God and neighbor known to the whole world, extending the sum of the Torah around the whole world.
That first step would then be followed by the crucifixion of the Jew who preached this so as to illustrate how Trut must be allowed to speak out if the Love of God and Neighbor is ever to manifest.
For example, even the Kennedys were opposed to the trouble maker, Martin Luther King, becuse they did not face the truth about civil rights until King was "crucified."
Once this happened, all Americandid face the Reality of "equal but separate.
They then admitted it was a lie.
They accepted the Truth (aka Christ), and changed the Laws.
The ever unfolding Reality that sires Truth in its wake is the ONLY God.
Man's ability to discern Reality by means of forming its image (i.e.; Truth) inside his mind is the ONLY way he can actually behave sanely, in accord with this God.
By responding appropriately to his image of Truth, man is essentially worshipping Reality as his God.
And, according to Jesus himself, in John 4:23, "It is just such worshipers the Father seeks." He was talking to the Samaritan woman about two peoples: The Jews and the Gentiles. That while the Gentiles worship what they do not understand, the Jews understand what they worship. (John 4:22)
...to teach Mankind what love is, He became a Jew...
Are you suggesting that the Jews of 32AD already knew?
Are you implying that the Jews of today know?
My take is that God became The Jew who would make the message of Love God and neighbor known to the whole world, extending the sum of the Torah around the whole world.
That first step would then be followed by the crucifixion of the Jew who preached this so as to illustrate how Trut must be allowed to speak out if the Love of God and Neighbor is ever to manifest.
For example, even the Kennedys were opposed to the trouble maker, Martin Luther King, becuse they did not face the truth about civil rights until King was "crucified."
Once this happened, all Americandid face the Reality of "equal but separate.
They then admitted it was a lie.
They accepted the Truth (aka Christ), and changed the Laws.
Jesus was not the Truth as an individual but as part of the Jewish People. Whenever he said, "I am the truth..." he spoke as part of the collective in Israel and not as himself individually. Light is another simbol for the truth; and Jesus in his sermon of the mount to a crowd of Jews, said: "You are the light of the world." Read Mat. 5:14.
Jesus was not the Truth as an individual but as part of the Jewish People. Whenever he said, "I am the truth..." he spoke as part of the collective in Israel and not as himself individually. Light is another simbol for the truth; and Jesus in his sermon of the mount to a crowd of Jews, said: "You are the light of the world." Read Mat. 5:14.
Ben
It is true that the Jews have been choosen to tell the gentiles that their Mythological Gods are really just anthropomorphic presonifications of human behaviors.
The way people think, their life perspectives and/or philosophical outlooks re-appear in every generation, as if they are influenced by some immortal "leader" or "guru" or "God."
The Myers/Briggs Type Test we use today makes it possible to give every person a four letter designation of just which personality grouo they belong in.
We know today that there are a dozen or so kinds of people, in regard to how they think.
Like, Elizabeth is a INFJ.
Rev. 2:17 He that hath an ear, (listen to this clear meaning), let him hear what the Spirit, (the Sevenfold Psyche), saith unto the churches, (that is, the evolving body of Christianity);
To him that overcometh, (i.e.; he who sublimates beyond the archaic medieval interpretations and scriptural misunderstandings), will I give to eat of (the cabala mystery of the Kohanim), the hidden manna, (i.e.; the hidden organizational pattern in Genesis) and will give him a white "stone, " (a piece of paper), and in the stone a new name written, (one of "the twelve fruits" or Personality Types from the [Biological] Tree of Life: [Rev 22:3]), which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it, (i.e.; his Test Type, like in the Myers/Briggs Personality Testing)
Jesus was the Jew who has made those mythological Gods disappear from the Gentile world and has us debating about the insight given to the Jews 3362 years ago, wherein the real God who can save is Truth, and our righteous personality type of cope-ing otherwise is what causes all our sociual problems.
Jesus is saying what Moses, Elijah, and the prophets have all saying in their own way,.
All Jews.
And all, a light until those gentiles who worship a psychological pre-set mentality as if under the power of some mythological God or Goddess.
(But of course, as the prophets report time and again, the Jews have consistently fallen away and behaved as their gentile neighbors.)
It is true that the Jews have been choosen to tell the gentiles that their Mythological Gods are really just anthropomorphic presonifications of human behaviors.
The way people think, their life perspectives and/or philosophical outlooks re-appear in every generation, as if they are influenced by some immortal "leader" or "guru" or "God."
The Myers/Briggs Type Test we use today makes it possible to give every person a four letter designation of just which personality grouo they belong in.
We know today that there are a dozen or so kinds of people, in regard to how they think.
Like, Elizabeth is a INFJ.
Rev. 2:17 He that hath an ear, (listen to this clear meaning), let him hear what the Spirit, (the Sevenfold Psyche), saith unto the churches, (that is, the evolving body of Christianity);
To him that overcometh, (i.e.; he who sublimates beyond the archaic medieval interpretations and scriptural misunderstandings), will I give to eat of (the cabala mystery of the Kohanim), the hidden manna, (i.e.; the hidden organizational pattern in Genesis) and will give him a white "stone, " (a piece of paper), and in the stone a new name written, (one of "the twelve fruits" or Personality Types from the [Biological] Tree of Life: [Rev 22:3]), which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it, (i.e.; his Test Type, like in the Myers/Briggs Personality Testing)
Jesus was the Jew who has made those mythological Gods disappear from the Gentile world and has us debating about the insight given to the Jews 3362 years ago, wherein the real God who can save is Truth, and our righteous personality type of cope-ing otherwise is what causes all our sociual problems.
Jesus is saying what Moses, Elijah, and the prophets have all saying in their own way,.
All Jews.
And all, a light until those gentiles who worship a psychological pre-set mentality as if under the power of some mythological God or Goddess.
(But of course, as the prophets report time and again, the Jews have consistently fallen away and behaved as their gentile neighbors.)
The Lord loves whom He chastises. Take a look at Jeremiah 46:28. "You, My servant Jacob - the Jews - never fear, says the Lord, for I am with you. I will make an end of all the nations to which I have driven you. But of you I will not make an end. I will chastise you though, as you deserve, but I will not let you go unpunished." IOW, I love you too much for that.
August 15th, 2012, 12:27 PM
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