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MidActs Dispensationalism Acts 9 (or MidActs) Dispensationalism acknowledges the scriptural presentation of the dispensation of grace having begun with, not before, Paul; and its adherents accept the admonishment of Jesus Christ Himself that members of the Body of Christ follow Paul as he followed Christ.

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March 28th, 2014, 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
when was the law written in their hearts ?
Jer 31:33
You obviously forgot that we were speaking of the Gentiles and not the Jews.

When Adam ate of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" he had the knowledge of the law written in his heart and his "conscience" bore witness to that law. His very nature had changed. The Lord said: "Behold,the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil " (Gen.3:22). Man now had a "conscience" of the law written in his heart.

Clarence Larkin wrote:
"Adam and Eve had no conscience before the 'Fall.' Conscience is a knowledge of 'Good' and 'Evil,' and this Adam and Eve did not have until they had their eyes opened by eating of the 'Fruit' of the 'Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' " (Larkin, Rightly Dividing The Word [Rev. Clarence Larkin Est.], 19).
Dr. Renald E. Showers wrote the following:
"Genesis 3:5 and 22 indicate that mankind obtained its awareness of good and evil as a result of eating the forbidden fruit. In other words, the human conscience began when man rebelled against God...Paul indicated that the conscience is the awareness of good and evil which exists inside human beings. It condemns people internally when they do something in the category of evil, and it commends them internally when they do something in the category of good" (Showers, The Second Dispensation, Ankerberg Theological Research Institute).
We also read the following in The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy:
"The Edenic covenant is tied to the dispensation of innocence, whereby God tested man to see if he would live by God's conditions. God told man not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17). The dispensation ended in man's failure--Eve was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14) and Adam deliberately disobeyed. As a result, the first man had personal and experiental knowledge of good and evil. What seemed like a simple, limited act of eating fruit ended in a broad, conscious knowledge of right and wrong. In the next dispensation, the descendants of Adam were responsible for this new awareness of sin" [emphasis added] (The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy, ed.Tim LaHaye & Ed Hindson, [Eugene: Harvest House, 2004], 86).
Quote:
no he didn't .
Since you think that the Jews who were under the law at the time when the Lord Jesus walked the earth could not be saved apart from works they why did the Lord not mention any works here?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).



   
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March 29th, 2014, 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
You obviously forgot that we were speaking of the Gentiles and not the Jews.

When Adam ate of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" he had the knowledge of the law written in his heart and his "conscience" bore witness to that law. His very nature had changed. The Lord said: "Behold,the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil " (Gen.3:22). Man now had a "conscience" of the law written in his heart.
you just proved the knowledge of good and evil to all mankind nothing else

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart
#336Yes, a person could obtain eternal life by keeping the law (with faith)
#332 I never said that they were not to keep the law
#316 Jews who lived under the law
you are confused you want to put salvation by faith grace from Paul's dispensation into Moses's dispensation of law (faith works) .

Rom 11:6 vs Lev 4:31


Quote:
Since you think that the Jews who were under the law at the time when the Lord Jesus walked the earth could not be saved apart from works they why did the Lord not mention any works here?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
the chapter is about Jesus works and not being believed

Joh 5:8 Jesus said to him, "Get up, take up your bed, and walk."
Joh 5:9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked. Now that day was the Sabbath.

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working."

and faith in Jesus

Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


his audience believed that the keeping of the law could save them apart from faith

Joh 5:16 And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.

Joh 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.



   
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March 30th, 2014, 09:00 AM

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Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
you are confused you want to put salvation by faith grace from Paul's dispensation into Moses's dispensation of law (faith works)
It is you who is confused when it comes to understanding what Paul was speaking of when he spoke of the "dispensation of grace."

Quote:
the chapter is about Jesus works and not being believed
But you fail to mention that the Lord said that those who believe have eternal life and will not be judged:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
So according to your ideas no one who lived under the law was saved by faith alone even though we see the following spoken to one who lived under the Law?:
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).
Was Peter wrong when he spoke of his own salvation as being of grace and just like the salvation of the Gentiles?:
"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).
Was Peter wrong when he said the following:
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).
According to your ideas God did indeed treat the Jew and the Gentile differently because the Jews could not be saved unless they did works!



   
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March 30th, 2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
It is you who is confused when it comes to understanding what Paul was speaking of when he spoke of the "dispensation of grace."

#332 I never said that they were not to keep the law
are you calling works grace ?

Lev 4:31 And all its fat he shall remove, as the fat is removed from the peace offerings,
and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a pleasing aroma to the LORD.
And the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven.






Quote:
So according to your ideas no one who lived under the law was saved by faith alone even though we see the following spoken to one who lived under the Law?:
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).
Was Peter wrong when he spoke of his own salvation as being of grace and just like the salvation of the Gentiles?:
"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).
Was Peter wrong when he said the following:
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).
Jews understood faith + works

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.



   
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March 31st, 2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
are you calling works grace ?

Lev 4:31 And all its fat he shall remove, as the fat is removed from the peace offerings,
and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a pleasing aroma to the LORD.
And the priest shall make atonement for him, and he shall be forgiven.
Are you really unfder the impression that doing the works of the law actually took away sin?:
"But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Heb.10:3-4).
For those under the law it was a person's "faith" and faith alone which took away sins and brought salvation, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words here:
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).
The Jews were cleansed from their sins in the same way as were the Gentiles. Peter said:
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).
You say that God treated the Jews differently than He did the Gentiles despite Pater's words that there is no difference.

Quote:
Jews understood faith + works

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Those words were speaking of people who lived outside of the nation of Israel, not the Jews.

Besides that, the Lord Jesus declared to the Jews who lived under the law and believed received eternal life and will not be judged:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
No mention of works there!















Jews understood faith + works

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.[/QUOTE]



   
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March 31st, 2014, 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart
#336Yes, a person could obtain eternal life by keeping the law (with faith)
#332 I never said that they were not to keep the law
#316 Jews who lived under the law
so you admit
Jews were under the law
had to keep the law

but it was ok if they didn't because in Saul's day it was by grace
and God forgave all.

1Sa 15:11 "I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and
has not performed my commandments." And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the LORD all night.
1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.



   
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March 31st, 2014, 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
so you admit
Jews were under the law
had to keep the law
Of course they were under the law but they were saved by faith alone.

Quote:
but it was ok if they didn't because in Saul's day it was by grace
and God forgave all.

1Sa 15:11 "I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and
has not performed my commandments." And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the LORD all night.
1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.
In order to understand what is said at 1 Samuel 16:14 the whole context must be understood:
"And the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?...Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him...And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam.16:1,13-14,23).
The giving of the Spirit of the Lord to David was the supernatural authentication of God's will in regard to the giving of the throne of Israel to David. Likewise, the taking away of the Spirit from Saul was a supernatural authentication of God's will in regard to the taking away of the throne from Saul.

If you actually want to know the truth if those who lived under the law could lose their salvation all you have to do is to study the Lord Jesus' words spoken to those who lived under the law. Here He said:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.10:37).
Frankly, I am dismayed and appalled that so many just deny these words of the Lord Jesus. I am equally dismayed by those who say that the Jews who lived under the law had to do works in order to be saved since the Lord Jesus said that faith is all that is needed:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).



   
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April 8th, 2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

so by your philosophy demons are saved because
all you have to do is believe .



   
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April 11th, 2014, 04:14 PM

This book changed my life.





"The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Romans 1:16


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April 11th, 2014, 08:52 PM

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This book changed my life.
How?





"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."

“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”


. . . Gordon H. Clark
   
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April 12th, 2014, 01:17 PM

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This book changed my life.
knowing the plot twist really explains everything .



   
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