[beloved57]

Originally Posted by xAvarice

What would be the ramifications of Jesus not being God? (Subjectively)

Do you understand my points in post 613 ? Rehearse them with me !

[beloved57]

Now many Blasphemers contend that if Christ is also God, then why has it been given of the Father to Him to be Judge of all Mankind ? However it is to their folly, the very fact that God the Father gave such a business to the Man Christ Jesus, is the Father's attestation that the Son is God also, for none other than God could be qualified to Judge all Mankind, who is God.

So it will be also at this Time, The Great Day of Judgment and Wrath, that all mankind will confess [agree with, say the same thing] That Jesus Christ is Jehovah LORD to the Glory of the Father, since the Father has always attested to the Son being God. Phil 2:9-11

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord[Jehovah], to the glory of God the Father.

Jn 5:22-23

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Thats because the Judge of Mankind must be Essentially God for such a Business !

Heb 1:8

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Christ's Kingdom here will Judge the World at His Coming 2 Tim 4:1

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

At which His sceptre will appear to be Righteous Rev 15:3-4

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Thats How its going to be to the Glory of God the Father, and thats how and why all men will Honor the Son [As Jehovah God] as they do the Father, in the Day of Judgment, for which why the Father appointed Him Supreme Judge.

Then men will confess it, the difference being then however, those who are now being made to confess it at Judgment day, who did not before,they will be confessing it on their way to perdition 2 Pet 3:7

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
So those of us who are reading these words now, and do not believe the Man Christ Jesus is also Jehovah God, the Supreme Judge f all mankind, be sure we will confess it so in that Day, when we shall be consigned into perdition !

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by Elia

Bs'd

Keypurr, don't let yourself be bamboozled into believing that Apple7 knows anything about Hebrew or Greek.

I know Hebrew, and so I know that he doesn't know Hebrew at all.

Most likely his knowledge of Greek is on the same level.

Still, if you are serious about investigating the Bible, you should do a course Biblical Hebrew. The vast majority of your Bible is written in Hebrew, and a world will open up for you.


Eliyahu

I would like to friend, but this old man can not retain what he has already learned. I know Apple does not know as much as he thinks he does, but I give him credit for trying.

[xAvarice]

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

He would not have been able to atone for our sins and we would all be headed to hell or the entire bible would be a lie.

Can I be for that without evidence? *Puts Nazaroo hat on*

[xAvarice]

Originally Posted by Elia

"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

He may still think you took his name in vain if he's a keen hangman player.

[Omniskeptical]

Originally Posted by Apple7

I think that you need to start some new threads entitled: 'Pop's theology'...where the original languages are completely ignored as a prerequisite for discussion.

Howabout where only original languages should be used first as proof?

[Drake Shelton]

Originally Posted by beloved57

Matt 19:16-26

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


This passage actually is teaching the Truth that Jesus is God ! Notice vs 17 As the young man had addressed Jesus as good, and Jesus responded accordingly, why callest thou me good, for none is good but ONE, that One Being God

Now , notice Jesus did not say, none is good but One and that is my Father, but He said that One, Being God !

Now if Jesus by this is not insinuating that He is God, then the alternative is that He was not good, seeing He just said only ONE, not Two, but ONLY ONE is good.

Now, if Jesus was not good, being that He was not the Only One Good God, then His commanding him, the young ruler, in order to be perfect, that he must go sell all his possessions, then give to the poor, and follow Him; Such an commandment exposed that the young man loved his possessions above God, which was a violation of the very first commandment, now if Jesus was not God, then the young mans refusal to obey and follow Jesus, could not be a proper standard to gauge his Love to God !

For there could not have been nothing amiss about not making such a great sacrifice as that Jesus told him, and then following Him if the One speaking was not the One God, who Only was good !

What are you saying when you say that Jesus is God? Are you saying that Jesus is the same person as God? Are you saying the Jesus has rhe same kind of nature as God? What are you saying?

[Drake Shelton]

Originally Posted by keypurr

If Jesus died then he is not God for God can not die.

Paul says he is the image of God, not God.

The Orthodox position was not to say that the One God died but his Son died in an assumed human nature. This does not require him to die with respect to divinity.

Your mistake is the same as the Roman catholic. You think the word God understood particularly refers to nature and not person.

[Drake Shelton]

Originally Posted by Iconodule

Jesus Christ is one person in two natures, fully human and fully divine. He died in his humanity, not his divinity. However, since Christ is one person it is proper to say that "God died," so long as we understand that the divine nature did not die.

Likewise it is good to call the Virgin Mary "Mother of God" as she gave birth to God in the flesh.



He is the express image of God the Father. How is that possible? Because he has the same nature as God the Father and is therefore himself God.

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..."

I close with one of my favorite Christian hymns:

Only begotten Son and Immortal Word of God, Who for our salvation willed to be incarnate of the Holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary; Who without change became man, and were crucified, O Christ our God, trampling down death by death; who are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit- save us!

The problem with your construction is that it makes the One God a nature and not a person. The original nicene creed makes very clear that the one God is a single person: The Father.

[Drake Shelton]

[quote=Iconodule;3213420]Jesus Christ is one person, fully God and fully man. Therefore, to say "Jesus Christ died" is to say "God died." You cannot separate Jesus from God.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

If you read the Greek there is an article before the God with whom the Logos is. Thus when it says the Logos is Theos it means the Logos bears the nature of the One God, the Father.

[beloved57]

drake

What are you saying when you say that Jesus is God?

Thats what this thread is all about, read it, I have been explaining my points.

[beloved57]

Does the scripture teach that Christ was in any way Created or Generated ? Yes it does, The Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God, Begotten of the Father, from Everlasting was Created or Begotten. The Lord Jesus Christ in His Person and Character as the Son of God, The Mediator, He is the very first production of God's Power, that is to say the Firstborn of Every Creature that God Made, such is revealed in scriptures like Rev 3:14

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Proverbs 8 reads here Prov 8:22-23

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

This is what Jesus is referring to in Rev 3:14, for He is the Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24.

Now the word possessed Vs 22 is the Hebrew word qanah and means:

to get, acquire, create, buy, possess

Now to Create also means to:

to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes

Also :to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.

And so Prove 8:23 says of Him

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

This word set up is the Hebrew nacak and means:

to pour out, pour, offer, cast

a) (Qal)

1) to pour out

2) to cast metal images

3) to anoint (a king)

b) (Niphal) to be anointed

c) (Piel) to pour out (as a libation)

d) (Hiphil) to pour out libations

e) (Hophal) to be poured out

2) to set, install

a) (Qal) to install

b) (Niphal) to be installed

So Christ from Everlasting ,and by the Power of the Father was brought into existence as The Mediator and anointed and installed in that Office, as the Only Unique Son of God, of Highest Rank in Creation.

This is something accomplished in Eternity, also in this begetting, He was given a Seed a People in Him, which is also why He was made the pattern to which Adam was Created in the beginning with a people in him, and be made the fitting figure of Him that was to Come Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Hence its no difference in saying the Son of God was begotten from Everlasting, than saying He was Created from Everlasting in this Capacity, as the Son of God.

Also in this capacity He is inferior than the father, because the Father beget Him, though it was before Time began, and from Everlasting.

Now in also stating this, we believe also that the Son of God in His Essential Nature, the Word of God, The Logos, that He is the Essential God, Co Equal with the Father Jn 1:1, and also in this Nature He is Unbegotten, Uncreated, and The Great I AM, So He is both Beings in One. It is folly to teach and believe that He in His Essential Nature as God the Word, that He was begotten or Created or Generated, that would make Him a Begotten, created or Generated God, a derived God or Godhead and we consider that Blasphemy at its Highest ! Now I know my adversaries are going to twist and misrepresent this post, but its the Truth I had to witness to !

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Apple7

Nope.

K's logic is sound.

By the way, first and last is not a phrase exclusive to God only.

It is also used of Jesus Christ, a man, the son of God.

In Biblical culture, it was used in reference to a messenger who was the only one coming.

If someone received a message from a messenger who claimed he was the first and last, the meant he was the only one, so pay attention.

I am the first and last oatmeal, there will never be another me.

(Aren't you happy?)

You are the first and last you, there will never be another you.

Keypurr is the first and last Keypurr, there will never be another Keypurr.

oatmeal, the first and last oatmeal