[Totton Linnet]

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

OSAS, eh??

Everlasting life eh?

[Bright Raven]

Where does it say in scripture that a child of God can walk away from their salvation?

[steko]

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

OSAS, eh??

If one believes that he has everlasting life and at some point it comes to an end.......was it everlasting life that he had?

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by steko

If one believes that he has everlasting life and at some point it comes to an end.......was it everlasting life that he had?

10 days later and no answer. Typical...

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Nick M

10 days later and no answer. Typical...

I figured Steko had the last word and it was a good one. Nobody can refute it.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

Oatmeal...you have surprised me. I'll give you a big AMEN on this one.

thanks

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

Wow...if you just accepted Jesus as your Lord AND GOD, you'd be there. He became flesh. What was He before He became flesh? There is your own personal stumbling stone.

Sorry, but Romans 10:9-10 does not require that.

If anything it requires the opposite.

For we are to confess the lord Jesus

and

believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.

Believe Who raised Jesus from the dead?

a... Jesus

b. God

"b" is the correct answer.

God raised Jesus from the dead.

There are at least 20 scriptures that verify that.

But only one that seems to indicate that Jesus raised himself.

Kind of like I Thessalonians 4:16, "the dead in Christ shall rise first"

Does that verse say the God or Jesus will raise them up? No.

It says the dead shall rise, not the dead shall be raised up.

So, you have a dilemma.

oatmeal

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

Bullinger?? That figures.

FWIW, a change of heart has to happen before salvation. That is what repentance is all about. Forget Bullinger.

I will forget you long before I forget Bullinger.

He was one great man of God.

Who are you?

oatmeal

[Bright Raven]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Sorry, but Romans 10:9-10 does not require that.

If anything it requires the opposite.

For we are to confess the lord Jesus

and

believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.

Believe Who raised Jesus from the dead?

a... Jesus

b. God

"b" is the correct answer.

God raised Jesus from the dead.

There are at least 20 scriptures that verify that.

But only one that seems to indicate that Jesus raised himself.

Kind of like I Thessalonians 4:16, "the dead in Christ shall rise first"

Does that verse say the God or Jesus will raise them up? No.

It says the dead shall rise, not the dead shall be raised up.

So, you have a dilemma.

oatmeal

Please explain.

John 2:19 (KJV)
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

[Jason0047]

On one end of the spectrum you have folks who place an over emphasis on works as if it was more important than what Christ accomplished for us on the cross. Many will say you have to be baptized to be saved or observe the Sabbath on a Saturday to be saved; Which is absolutely unbiblical.

On the other end of the spectrum you have people who believe that once you prayed the prayer to repent of your sins and accept the Lord you are forever saved. That no matter how horrible you live your life from that point on, that you are saved no matter what. That you can go back to living your old life as if nothing ever happened and still enjoy the good benefits of Heaven. In other words, a Christian can enjoy all the sinful things in this life as much as they want and they can still end up in Heaven. However, basic morality, common sense, and the Scriptures all say that this type of thinking is madness. For God does not force His salvation upon a person once they did that prayer. What if they do not want to be with God anymore? Is God going to force them into Heaven?

No, God calls us to repent of our sins. The word "repent" is to have a turn around in one's old life or ways. For after Jesus had forgiven the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, he also told her to sin no more, too. This is the true meaning of what Biblical repentance means. So if a person is still abiding in willful sin, then they are out of favor with God and they need to repent and get their hearts right with Him. They also need to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance as Jesus Himself said. For faith without works is dead. So a Christian has to obey the Lord and walk or abide in His Spirit. God cannot abide in sin. So if your life is full of sin and no repentance of that sin, then you are not walking with the Lord but a god of your own imagining who rewards you (i.e. Heaven) for doing evil.

[drstevej]

OJSG

Once Justified Surely Glorified

Rom. 8:30

and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Not some of these

[Jason0047]

When we read Romans 8:30, we must also read Romans 8:28 before it to put the passage in context.

Romans 8:28

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

So when examining...

Romans 8:30

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

We have to realize that those who are predestined or justified are defined as those who actually love God according to Romans 8:28. A person does not love God and is not called according to His purpose if they are abiding in sin by disobeying his commandments. For Jesus said if you love Him, you would keep His commandments. Which is a reference to His commands that apply for it's appropriate time (Whether it was the time of Old Covenant or the time of the New Covenant). Under the Old Covenant, Christ had supported men following the Law. Then later, after His resurrection He and his apostles preached under the New Covenant. This New Covenant (Which completely replaces the Old Covenant) includes a walk with God in holiness as defined by those rules laid out to us in the New Testament. This New Covenant also commands us to fulfill the great commission in preaching the gospel to all nations and in helping the poor, too. For we are not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. However, just because God purchased redemption for every man (1 John 2:1-2), does not mean God forces salvation on anyone, though. People first have to repent and turn from their wicked ways in order for the blood of Christ to cleanse them. You still have to choose to pick up your cross every day and love and obey the Lord.

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

1 John 1:7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Furthermore, Romans 8:30 is also being read from the vantage point of God and not man, too. However, this does not mean we share the same vantage point, though. For Paul himself thought that he could be a cast away (1 Corinthians 9:27).

In other words, those who are truly predestined and justified are those who endure or overcome in their faith so that they can be glorified in the end.

Revelation 3:5

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

For overcoming is not a belief. For anyone can belief something. That is an effortless task. Overcoming implies an action on your part.

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by steko

If one believes that he has everlasting life and at some point it comes to an end.......was it everlasting life that he had?

The life of God is eternal but those who receive it are not immortal until the resurrection.

It is necessary to abide in that eternal life or one may not be in the resurrection when Christ appears.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.