[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by NewDay

We all undergo wrath, for our sins now; while in this body.

Death is the final wrath on the flesh.

Good news is that He did not come to redeem the flesh; so whatever we suffer in the flesh/body, is not condemnation, where salvation is concerned.

You have to use biblical words in a correct way. Yes, you could say that your flesh is forever condemned; but then, you would have to admit that it is not going to rise again, once it dies.

Which actually is the truth of the matter.

Romans 2:3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Romans 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Romans 2:8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Romans 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

Romans 2:10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by NewDay

The whole world was condemned under the law; before Christ came.

That is why it says, 'there is none righteouss'.

NO not one.

He came to redeem us from that condemnation, remember?

I'm trying to figure out how I can deduce this kind of statement from the book of Romans. So far, I have the OP saying that I have not.

[beloved57]

new

Well, Im glad we got the first part straightened out,

It has never been crooked, for its plain in scripture that Christ died for others sins 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

He endured for the Elect the Punishment, the Wrath of God that those He died for deserved for their Transgressions against God's Law ! And By His Perfect obedience to it,He also earned for them a Righteousness that Justifies them before God,it declares them Righteous !

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Romans 2:3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Romans 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Romans 2:8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Romans 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

Romans 2:10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.

Deeds done under the law of moses are filthy rags. The only deeds that God accepts are those done in love, for God is love.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by beloved57

new



It has never been crooked, for its plain in scripture that Christ died for others sins 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

He endured for the Elect the Punishment, the Wrath of God that those He died for deserved for their Transgressions against God's Law ! And By His Perfect obedience to it,He also earned for them a Righteousness that Justifies them before God,it declares them Righteous !

He died for the sins of the whole world, if you do not believe that, you are rejecting HIS word on the matter.

1 Joh 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

Just believe it as it is written, brother.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You are right that I am asking if we can post scripture, and more importantly if we can live from scripture (the words of scripture are more important than our words about what we think is true or what we think scripture says).

Agreed; so if you believe that, why do you reject the truth that righteousness cannot come through the law of moses, niether can good deeds...OR, is that what you are saying? It appears to me you are.

If you want to do righteouss deeds, they cannot be through or by the law of moses, that can only work wrath.

Do them by the new covenant; and it's form of law; faith working love, via the Holy Spirit and you will be doing the will of God.

[beloved57]

newd

He died for the sins of the whole world,

Sure of the Elect ! and I am not your brother in Christ ! You serve a false christ !

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by NewDay

Deeds done under the law of moses are filthy rags. The only deeds that God accepts are those done in love, for God is love.

Any deeds done to build righteousness fail, wheter we are talking about the Law of Moses or not.

We will all be judged for our deeds done in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by NewDay

Agreed; so if you believe that, why do you reject the truth that righteousness cannot come through the law of moses, niether can good deeds...OR, is that what you are saying? It appears to me you are.

If you want to do righteouss deeds, they cannot be through or by the law of moses, that can only work wrath.

Do them by the new covenant; and it's form of law; faith working love, via the Holy Spirit and you will be doing the will of God.

It is my belief that we don't achieve true righteousness (in Christ) by doing the deeds of any moral standard.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by beloved57

newd



Sure of the Elect ! and I am not your brother in Christ ! You serve a false christ !

another accuser of the brethren....

You reject the word of God...on the matter, there is nothing I can do about it.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

It is my belief that we don't achieve true righteousness (in Christ) by doing the deeds of any moral standard.

Amen...and, amen.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Any deeds done to build righteousness fail, wheter we are talking about the Law of Moses or not.

We will all be judged for our deeds done in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Well, deeds done in love cannot fail. Love does not fail:

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.


Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If you are serving in love, you cannot fail. You fulfill the whole law, for it is faith that worketh love.

2 Cor 8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

[Untellectual]

There is a thing people call love that is not the love of God. But whatever the standard of love, even a love called the love of God, it is from God and not something we manufacture for salvation.

[beloved57]

new day

another accuser of the brethren

You not my Brother in Christ, that is for sure ! Not with the false antichrist doctrines you witness to !

[Untellectual]

1 Timothy 3:6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.

I was thinking the words "condemnation incurred" recently. When I found the verse (these words appear in the NASB but not the KJV), it says "by the devil".

My understanding is that God does condemn. I don't think it is only satan.

Romans 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

Romans 2:2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.

The passage here in Romans 2 seems to be talking about condemning ourselves or people condemning themselves. And also the judgment of God for those who "practice such things" (meaning the sin whether someone else is doing it or we are doing it ourselves).

I was recently discussing this verse.

Romans 3:8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.

Here we have condemnation in Adam.

Romans 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Here is the famous verse:

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

The following verse talks about "sin in the flesh" being condemned by God in His Son.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

And here is a warning in regard to authority.

Romans 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

So in all of this as I reflect on it I wonder if there is a Bible verse about being condemned by the Law of God. Many think that the enemy is the Law.

We see the existence of sin before the law, signaling that the law is not the problem.

Romans 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The law of sin and of death is not the Law of Moses, as some think it is:

Romans 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If the law is good as Paul says it is (twice in his writings (twice in Romans 7 and once in 1 Timothy 1), does the law cause sin?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Romans 7:9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;

Romans 7:10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

Romans 7:11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Romans 7:13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Romans 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Romans 7:16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Romans 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

And here is the tie in after Romans 8:1 to the law of sin and death previously mentioned in Romans 5:21.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

And in closing I back up a bit, to consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus, even though the Law is weak in the flesh and doesn't save, and because we are slaves to righteousness now.

Romans 6:11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

Romans 6:13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Further, obedience was a part of Paul's message (Romans 1:5, 15:18).

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?