[Knight]

Denver Bible Church Press Release
For Immediate Release:

10 - Thanksgiving is mass murder for turkeys.

9 - Too many SUVs traveling to grandma's house.

8 - College bowl games encourage competition.

7 - Millions of Christmas trees are cut down.

6 - The pilgrims thought up Thanksgiving, not the Indians.

5 - Christmas lights waste electricity.

4 - People are giving thanks to WHO?

3 - Winter lull in global-warming hype.

2 - Daycare centers are closed.

1 - Christmas celebrates a birth, not an abortion.

Liberals often pit themselves against good traditions. Bible teachings present the cure for liberalism. It is good to eat animals - good for people (who get great enjoyment and nutrition) and good for animals. Animal rights activists would annihilate against sixty million turkeys yearly, turkeys which would never even exist if they didn't end up on dinning room tables. (It is better to live and be eaten then never to have lived at all.)

Extremist environmentalists forget that trees are a renewable resource. For every tree cut down, thousands of seeds can reproduce an unlimited number of new trees, and America has more trees today than 200 years ago.

Leading liberals have prejudice against the social descendants of the Pilgrims. Liberalism tends toward racism against Europeans, sexism against males, and discrimination against Christianity.

Some people put down others to elevate themselves or their friends. Liberals often denounce Christian white males in order to elevate their special interests. Leading liberals blame religion, especially Christianity, for the world's problems, advocating instead atheistic, evolutionary socialism.

Liberals thus ignore the murder of tens of millions of people in the recent past by the atheistic, evolutionary socialist Soviet Union and Communist China. Liberals prefer kids growing up institutionalized in daycare and government schools than having them raised at home by loving parents.

And finally, in their long war against God, liberals suggest that the only good Christian is a bad Christian, that is, one who rejects the exclusive claims of Jesus Christ.

For more information, see:
DenverBibleChurch.org or contact:
Denver Bible Church Pastor Bob Enyart
PO Box 583_ Arvada_ CO_ 80001
303 463-1707

[NSMinistries]

At least # 1 is the best one

[Patroclus]

Wow Knight, that first part was kind of funny. But that second part was over-general and inflamatory. I think it is funny that you should say:

Some people put down others to elevate themselves or their friends.

in a thread like this, where it is obvious that your objective is to put people down.

Let me give you a Christian Liberal perspective. You say that the Bible gives the cure for liberalism. I say that it gives the source for proper liberalism. The people depicted in the Bible, especially Jesus and Paul, were two of the most liberal people in the history of the world. Jesus taught a better way, and Paul forsook the extremely conservative sect of the Pharisees in order to preach a gospel that, to the rest of the civilized world, was considerred atheistic. Furthermore, for over 150 years, Christians were martyrd, largely, because the rest of the world thought they were cannibals.

To be a liberal means that you are a person who looks at the world and sees that everything is not right, so you want to change that. Who doesn't want to stop hunger, homelessness and child abuse. It is obvious that many of the current systems aren't working very well, so many people, like myself, want to figure out ways to improve the system.

Furthermore, you call yourself pro-life. In case you didn't know, by the very fact that you want to see laws changed that allow abortion, you are defined as a liberal. To maintain the status quo is to be a conservative.

Also, the word "liberal" derives its root from the same word as "liberty." This seems like a supreme power of grace through Jesus Christ. Are we not liberated by His grace? Do we not want to liberate others from the bondage of sin? Do we not want to see the world change? That is a liberal viewpoint my friend. Anytime the status quo is challenged, it is, by definition, a liberal challenge. Be careful when you are throwing that word around.

Now, let's make the first part funny.

10. Thanksgiving would not be seen as the mass-murder of turkeys, but:
The support of an industry that genetically engineers mentally challenged birds for mass consumption. They are both harmful to the environment and to consumers. Let's get an injunction against these turkeys, err... breeders.

9. Okay, this one wasn't very funny (just corny), but I can't think of anything better.

8. College bowl games encourage youth violence

7. Christmas trees are a fire hazard. (The Republican response to this may be: We have heard reports that Al Queda plans to detonate a weapon of mass-destruction in a Christmas tree, somewhere in the United States. Please ignore the FBI agents that may be patroling your house. Merry Christmas.)

6. Okay, this one was funny!

5. Christmas light strings favor certain colors and therefore do not represent the multiplicity of cultures in our nation today.

4. This one was cute

3. This one was kind of funny

2. Daycare union workers are out of a job

1. Nobody gives condoms for Christmas

[Knight]

Originally posted by Patroclus
To be a liberal means that you are a person who looks at the world and sees that everything is not right, so you want to change that.

What kind of bizarre definition is that??? Your definition assumes that any person who see's something that is "not right" must in fact be a "liberal". This view is self defeating in that both liberals and conservatives see things (and issues) that they perceive to be "not right".

Clearly you need to re-think your flawed position. Does that make me a "liberal"?

[Patroclus]

No, I think my definition satnds. My point is that we have perverted the definition of "liberal." Obviously, you think that being a liberal means that a person is a-moral and illogical. Neither of those two terms have anything to do with being liberated. On the other hand, you think that being conservative means being logical and moral. Again, either term has nothing to do with the word you are trying to define.

I know full well the symantic weight of the terms liberal and conservative. But I think we need to break out of that because they are not helpful at all. I think that the word "conservative" misrepresents Christianity. You are right, both "groups" want to change things. So, according to my definition, everybody is liberal in some way. That is okay, I just wanted to make a point about the meaning of words.

Here is another example. Though the democratic party calls itself so, very few democrats really want a real democracy. In fact, most of them rely on the strength of our Republic.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Patroclus
No, I think my definition satnds. My point is that we have perverted the definition of "liberal." Obviously, you think that being aliberal means that a person is a-moral and illogical. Neither of those two terms have anything to do with being liberated. On the other hand, you think that being conservative means being logical and moral. Again, either term has nothing to do with the word you are trying to define.

Would you be more satisfied with the terms "left wing" and "right wing"?

I really get bored arguing terms. I think we all generally know to a sufficiant degree what the terms mean.

[Patroclus]

I think we all generally know to a sufficiant degree what the terms mean.

I really doubt that you know what it means. I believe that you know the proper biases against people who call themselves liberal. My initial problem was not in the jokes, but it wsa in the over-generalzations that you made concerning a group of people that it is quite clear that you do not fully comprehend.

Politically speaking, most people would call me a liberal. Here are a few more "liberal" ideas that I support:

1. organizations should be more gender inclusive
2. Automobiles that consume large quantities of gasoline, or that produce high emmission levels should be limited in their production
3. We should decrease military spending

My question is, "so what?" None of these make me any less moral or logical. I'll stand by this: Political affiliation is not indicative of moral, intellectual or spiritual standing.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Patroclus
I really doubt that you know what it means. I believe that you know the proper biases against people who call themselves liberal. My initial problem was not in the jokes, but it wsa in the over-generalzations that you made concerning a group of people that it is quite clear that you do not fully comprehend.

Actually I think you are proving beyond any doubt that I in fact DO understand what a "liberal" is.

Oh... and... just so you know.....

I wish I could take credit for the original post, but if you are able to read you will notice I didn't write it myself.

[Prisca]

Patroclus,

It seems you take yourself too seriously. Lighten up and have some fun!

[Knight]

Originally posted by Becky
Patroclus,

It seems you take yourself too seriously. Lighten up and have some fun!

Now why didn't I say that?

[Patroclus]

You are both right. I do take myself too seriously sometimes. I believe that I have done the same here.

I am willing to have fun, but whether the latter part of that thread was written by knight or a Pastor Enyart, it was not written in fun. You may notce that I tried to improvise on the jokes that were given in the first place. I think we are in a poor place if we cannot laugh at ourselves, however, I think belittling people in the way that the latter part of the thread did is wrong. I would be just as upset if it were done against conservative people.

Honestly, I am not offended; it takes a lot to do so. Rather, it seems to me that it further illuminates the ignorance that people have concerning one another.

[Jefferson]

Patroclus:

Would you be more satisfied with the terms "left wing" and "right wing"?

[pereynol]

Lately I do seem to run into more folks (whatever their political orientation) who hate the holidays, insisting they are "pagan," should be "condemned," etc...

[efta777]

I realize that you didn't write it, Knight, however I'll give my opinion anyway:

I think it's really funny, except that #4 should definately have been number one, then all the rest bumped up a number. I think it would have been an excellent climax to the tension built up while reading the list, all the while hoping that number one would indeed be the best one

An art Letterman has yet to master...

[Neo Tobiah]

It is better to live and be eaten then never to have lived at all.

I remember when I first heard Bob use that line on his TV show. What a fantastic line!