[Count Iblis]

Originally Posted by assuranceagent

I don't see anything good in a system designed to penalize people for success. How bout we eliminate income tax and go to the fair tax?

How about we eliminate the income tax and replace it was deep spending cuts?

[kmoney]

Originally Posted by WandererInFog

Most of those trade and small business are corporations as well. When corporate tax rates go up, it hits them just as much (or more) than it hits the big companies trading on Wall Street.

How are "small" businesses defined?

[assuranceagent]

Originally Posted by Count Iblis

How about we eliminate the income tax and replace it was deep spending cuts?

I'm in.

However, taxation is necessary if a bit unfortunate. Not necessarily income taxation, but taxation nonetheless.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

What will that do to the stock market?

I'm not rich, but I do have money in the stock market through an IRA.

Why raise taxes at all? Tax receipts have skyrocketed to record levels for the last three years. It's not like we don't have enough money coming in.

Sucker!!! So how are all those windfall returns now? The stock market: a tool for large business (and the executives who run them) to get rich by using YOUR money, and then leaving you to absorb the losses after they have raped the business and run it into the ground. Hey, maybe there's enough value left in your portfolio to buy a gun so you can hunt down the vermin you defend, the guys who just squandered your retirement, and then turn it on yourself to ease the pain of starving to death after you retire at 75.

[chestertonrules]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sucker!!! So how are all those windfall returns now? The stock market: a tool for large business (and the executives who run them) to get rich by using YOUR money, and then leaving you to absorb the losses after they have raped the business and run it into the ground. Hey, maybe there's enough value left in your portfolio to buy a gun so you can hunt down the vermin you defend, the guys who just squandered your retirement, and then turn it on yourself to ease the pain of starving to death after you retire at 75.

Feel free to bury your money in the back yard!!

Don't whine when inflation leaves you in the dust, however.

[TomO]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sucker!!! So how are all those windfall returns now? The stock market: a tool for large business (and the executives who run them) to get rich by using YOUR money, and then leaving you to absorb the losses after they have raped the business and run it into the ground. Hey, maybe there's enough value left in your portfolio to buy a gun so you can hunt down the vermin you defend, the guys who just squandered your retirement, and then turn it on yourself to ease the pain of starving to death after you retire at 75.

You mean Congress?

Ooooh waitaminnit! The Stock market!......I thought you were talking about Social Security

Honest mistake

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

Feel free to bury your money in the back yard!!

Don't whine when inflation leaves you in the dust, however.

Actually I am already retired and living quite well on the combination of Social Security, my defined benefit plan and savings that were always managed in secure vehicles. I am sure that you were one of those who cheered while employers threw out the old defined benefit plans and changed you over to 401Ks, and the like, that are invested in the stock market. And that just to line their own pockets. Your greed has come full circle, hasn't it? All the while my defined benefit plan was upgraded each period to keep up with inflation. Wow! how stupid of me.

Originally Posted by TomO

You mean Congress?

Ooooh waitaminnit! The Stock market!......I thought you were talking about Social Security

Honest mistake

Actually I was talking about both Congress and Wall Street. It is a symbiotic relationship. Wall Street and big business finance Congresspersons' (and Presidents') campaigns, as well as feed, fly, and entertain them; in return Congress gives Wall Street's and big business's thievery the freedom and protection of law. As far as Social Security goes, the only problem with it was when your old buddy Ronnie Reagan decided that the trust fund was actually a piggy bank and busted it open to manipulate the books so that his wild spending wouldn't show up so badly on the balance sheets. What a precedent to set. And now the grandkids will have to pay for his thievery as well.

What I never understood was how so many victims fight so hard to defend their muggers, and then tell them, "Please, do it again!!!"

[chestertonrules]

Actually I am already retired and living quite well on the combination of Social Security, my defined benefit plan and savings that were always managed in secure vehicles. I am sure that you were one of those who cheered while employers threw out the old defined benefit plans and changed you over to 401Ks, and the like, that are invested in the stock market. And that just to line their own pockets. Your greed has come full circle, hasn't it? All the while my defined benefit plan was upgraded each period to keep up with inflation. Wow! how stupid of me.

Actually, the market is up about 400% since that time, much more than SS benefits.

[TomO]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Actually I was talking about both Congress and Wall Street. It is a symbiotic relationship. Wall Street and big business finance Congresspersons' (and Presidents') campaigns, as well as feed, fly, and entertain them; in return Congress gives Wall Street's and big business's thievery the freedom and protection of law. As far as Social Security goes, the only problem with it was when your old buddy Ronnie Reagan decided that the trust fund was actually a piggy bank and busted it open to manipulate the books so that his wild spending wouldn't show up so badly on the balance sheets. What a precedent to set. And now the grandkids will have to pay for his thievery as well.

Ah, the Dems would have done it sooner ot later anyway.....in fact they did....otherwise he couldn't have.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

Actually, the market is up about 400% since that time, much more than SS benefits.

So how's your retirement plan looking now? How about tomorrow?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by TomO

Ah, the Dems would have done it sooner ot later anyway.....in fact they did....otherwise he couldn't have.

If I'm wrong, show me. It was Ronnie who decided that the Social Security Trust Fund was actually just a part of the General Fund so that he could use the revenues from it to manipulate the budget.

[TomO]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

If I'm wrong, show me. It was Ronnie who decided that the Social Security Trust Fund was actually just a part of the General Fund so that he could use the revenues from it to manipulate the budget.

Actually that was Johnson in 1968....Unified Budget

From Wikipedia: Assuming you accept Wikipedia...it's fast and usually accurate. I think in this case it is.

The government adopted a unified budget in the Johnson administration in 1968. This change resulted in a single measure of the fiscal status of the government, based on the sum of all government activity.[48] The surplus in Social Security trust funds offsets the total debt, making it appear much smaller than it otherwise would.

what Reagan did was:

"The 1983 Amendments also included a provision to exclude the Social Security Trust Fund from the unified budget (in political jargon, it was taken “off-budget”). This provision also provided for the exemption of Social Security and portions of the Medicare trust funds from any general budget cuts beginning in 1993.[48] This change was one way of trying to protect Social Security funds for the future.

This lead to:

As a result of these changes, particularly the tax increases, the Social Security system began to generate a large short-term surplus of funds, intended to cover the added retirement costs of the "baby boomers." Congress invested these surpluses into special series, non-marketable U.S. Treasury securities held by the Social Security Trust Fund. Under the law, the government bonds held by Social Security are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Because the government had adopted the unified budget during the Johnson administration, this surplus offsets the total fiscal debt, making it look much smaller. There has been significant disagreement over whether the Social Security Trust Fund has been saved, or has been used to finance other government programs and other tax cuts."

Not that I really blame any Party wholly....it's all been smoke and mirrors from the beginning.

[chestertonrules]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So how's your retirement plan looking now? How about tomorrow?

Mine is in great shape.

I'm not counting on anything from Social Security, either.

Social Security is a lousy investment.

I'm 44, and I'd be willing to let the government keep everything I've contributed if they would exempt me from SS taxes for the next 20 years.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

Mine is in great shape.

I'm not counting on anything from Social Security, either.

Social Security is a lousy investment.

I'm 44, and I'd be willing to let the government keep everything I've contributed if they would exempt me from SS taxes for the next 20 years.

THen you are quite fortunate. Most who I talk to have been crying about losses between 20-60% in their portfolios depending on how they were diversified.

[chestertonrules]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

THen you are quite fortunate. Most who I talk to have been crying about losses between 20-60% in their portfolios depending on how they were diversified.

If they don't sell, they'll be fine.

As you approach retirement years you should gradually move investments from stocks to more secure vehicles.

The stock market has increased five times more in the past 50 years than your social security contribution.

More concerning, Social Security cannot servive as currently structured.

Retiree population is growing faster than SS revenue.