And for us people who believe God is immutable, we have peace knowing that God will not change His mind about it.
You are making immutability a fixed attribute like eternality or omnipresence (metaphysics). Issues of faithfulness are in the philosophical arena of volitional morals. God is faithful because He chooses to be, not because He is a preprogrammed robot with no ability to keep His Word. God's character is not automatic. We have no reason to not trust God and His Word. If you can trust the word of your parents, how much more can you trust the Heavenly Father based on His self-revelation and track record.
Man and Satan are not trustworthy. God is not a man or devil.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
I don't know Knight, if I were an open theist, I might have to keep Him locked up:
What if He changes His mind?
God said that creation is very good, and it was. After the Fall, He changed His mind and wanted to wipe it out and was grieved. If He did not change His mind, His character and mind would be compromised.
God said Hezekiah is a dead duck. This was not a lie, but truth, at the time. However, in response to believing prayer (a new contingency), God did change His mind and added 15 years to his life. He did not have to, but was able to (you are saying He can't).
The statement about God changing his mind occurs dozens of times. It can be taken at face value since it does not compromise His character, but enhances it, when He does so. Being personal, will not is not cannot. If we can change our mind, why can't God (this means we are in His image, not us making God in our image like anti-OVT's lamely claim). In your view, the phrase is meaningless and has no opposite counterpart. There are a couple proof texts that you might use to say He does not change His mind. All they show is that God is not fickle or capricious when He does change it. They do not show that He cannot for ontological/immutability reasons.
You refuse to take the Word at face value because it contradicts traditional assumptions, not for exegetical reasons. Give up tradition rather than tampering with truth.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Slogan/motto:
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
Reputation:
December 27th, 2008, 08:51 PM
Whew! A guy goes away for a day, and has to read 6 pages to catch up! Somebody here should go get a job! oh wait, it's saturday...
This is my quick response... I'll try to get more involved later
And true to my nature, i'll respond with a question...
Knight, Graphite, and others who have stated that God does not control free will, and that God has prophesies which have not been fulfilled...
Does this mean I can mess up God's plans?
You've stated that God may say something, but if man doesn't decide to follow through with what He has said WILL come to pass, it won't come to pass... which indicates that man has power over God.
Must I point this out? That's a load of hooey. (technical term)
Please explain...
Last edited by always_learning; December 27th, 2008 at 08:52 PM.
Reason: condensin
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
But then I remembered that the open theist has to claim this is a corporate election so that it fits with open theism. so never mind.
We affirm corporate election, along with Arminians, because Calvinists are wrong on this point (TULIP). We can defend corporate election from the concept. We do not believe it because it supports our assumptions (beg question).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Whew! A guy goes away for a day, and has to read 6 pages to catch up! Somebody here should go get a job! oh wait, it's saturday...
This is my quick response... I'll try to get more involved later
And true to my nature, i'll respond with a question...
Knight, Graphite, and others who have stated that God does not control free will, and that God has prophesies which have not been fulfilled...
Does this mean I can mess up God's plans?
You've stated that God may say something, but if man doesn't decide to follow through with what He has said WILL come to pass, it won't come to pass... which indicates that man has power over God.
Must I point this out? That's a load of hooey. (technical term)
Please explain...
Satan, hell, and evil are e.g. of God not always getting His way. He could be a brute force dictator, but He chooses the risky way of love, freedom, and relationships.
God's power is tempered by His love and holiness. On an individual basis, God's will is not always done (rape, murder, atheism, hell). On a global basis, His intended project will come to pass and good will ultimately triumph over evil (but does not mean it always does so in any given issue now before the end of time).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Knight, Graphite, and others who have stated that God does not control free will, and that God has prophesies which have not been fulfilled...
Does this mean I can mess up God's plans?
God told Israel He would drive out the 'Ites, without fail.
The Israelites failed. He did not drive out the 'Ites from the Promised Land.
They messed up the plan at the time. But can we prevent God from ultimate victory? Of course not. He will return, He will be victorious, He will judge the world, those who are saved will have eternal life based on His declared promise, and He will reign forever. Most other details are up for grabs. At least most of Revelation will very likely happen, but it might not all come about as written, and people shouldn't be shocked if a few things end up different.
Quote:
You've stated that God may say something, but if man doesn't decide to follow through with what He has said WILL come to pass, it won't come to pass... which indicates that man has power over God.
Must I point this out? That's a load of hooey. (technical term)
Please explain...
Man doesn't have power over God. You have it backward.
God is sovereign. At the same time, He delegates authority to people in this world, with the freedom to reject His will and act rebellious. The pharisees resisted the will of God by not being baptized. And yet, it was God's will that they be baptized. So, He is sovereign and is guaranteed ultimate victory. But, He has given us the freedom to thwart His will in the short-term.
The Bible has no book of 1 & 2 Presidents, or 1 & 2 Legislators (the latter of which are specifically entrusted to continually change the law, something the Lord repeatedly rebukes Israel for doing).
Scripture does, however, have a book of Judges, and a book of 1 & 2 Kings. These are the rightful, divinely-ordained rulers of any just society under the principles of biblical theonomy.
Can I assume that you would affirm that God's righteous character never changes?
(Deut 28:63) "And it shall come to pass, that as theLORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you,and to bring you to nought;..."
It's about time someone else showed up who isn't an open theist.
I was starting to feel like a punching bag.
Get 'im, boys!
Just teasin'...
And yes, of course it was hooey. We OVers agree.
The Bible has no book of 1 & 2 Presidents, or 1 & 2 Legislators (the latter of which are specifically entrusted to continually change the law, something the Lord repeatedly rebukes Israel for doing).
Scripture does, however, have a book of Judges, and a book of 1 & 2 Kings. These are the rightful, divinely-ordained rulers of any just society under the principles of biblical theonomy.
Until we hasten that day, and then He will know that day and hour.
Lord, come quickly!
The Bible has no book of 1 & 2 Presidents, or 1 & 2 Legislators (the latter of which are specifically entrusted to continually change the law, something the Lord repeatedly rebukes Israel for doing).
Scripture does, however, have a book of Judges, and a book of 1 & 2 Kings. These are the rightful, divinely-ordained rulers of any just society under the principles of biblical theonomy.
What is the point of prophecy? Why does God say He tells us things in advance that are going to happen?
The point of prophecy is for man's benefit, to know and glorify the one true God, the One who has stated that the clear test of the true God is that what He says, will occur. God is not ruminating in His consciousness and throwing out some conjectures. He is telling the recipients what will happen or what will not happen, because He is sovereign and will make it happen or not happen directly or contingently upon the actions of others. It occurs, and God receives the glory from man.
You refuse to take the Word at face value because it contradicts traditional assumptions, not for exegetical reasons. Give up tradition rather than tampering with truth.
Define "face value" for as you have implied in your post it means nothing more than wooden literalism.
oh wait, it's saturday...
December 27th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Just teasin'...
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