[dodge]

Originally Posted by Egbert

Yeesh, you fundies seem to have awfully sensitive stomachs. I can listen to Fred Phelps proclaim the eternal doom of the world without feeling the least bit sick, while you guys can't handle listening to a polite and persuasive speaker who happens to be homosexual.

Think ! The man is talking about men striking their body parts in feces, and doing other very nasty things with bodily fluids.

[Cracked]

Blah blah blah, gay people are evil, blah, blah etc.

Take a good look around you - the gays and their supporters are winning. That is because reasonable people can tell the difference between what is an ethical, human rights issue and what is bias.

You are losing the battle worldwide, no matter how you huff and puff and claim moral superiority. In the not too distant future, orthodox christianity will not remember a time when homosexuals were excluded - maybe in your lifetime.

[Egbert]

Originally Posted by dodge

Think ! The man is talking about men striking their body parts in feces, and doing other very nasty things with bodily fluids.

The biological details of heterosexual sex aren't all that appealing either. Both varieties are nevertheless pleasureful for those so inclined.

[pozzolane]

Originally Posted by dodge

Think ! The man is talking about men striking their body parts in feces, and doing other very nasty things with bodily fluids.

Why is it that you fundamentalists have an obsession with describing (in detail no less) the specifics of homosexual love making?

[Delmar]

Originally Posted by Cracked

You are losing the battle worldwide, no matter how you huff and puff and claim moral superiority. In the not too distant future, orthodox christianity will not remember a time when homosexuals were excluded - maybe in your lifetime.

You do make me want to vomit! Not that you are wrong about that but

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by Delmar

You do make me want to vomit! Not that you are wrong about that but

I do hope to one day cause a fundie to vomit with the sheer power of my words someday.


Congratulations, cracked. Living the dream, man. Living the dream.

[Cracked]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

I do hope to one day cause a fundie to vomit with the sheer power of my words someday.


Congratulations, cracked. Living the dream, man. Living the dream.

[Ktoyou]

In a world where everyone has big purple noses, there was a boy with a nose much like most people here have. Now the boy felt out of sorts, nevertheless, he searched for a girl with a nose just like his. The society castigated them, but deep down they were laughing at all the rest with purple noses.

I had my eyes closed listening to this story and when asked how I felt about it I laughed,

Can anyone guess why?

[Nick M]

Fags are disgusting perverts.

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by dodge

Think ! The man is talking about men striking their body parts in feces, and doing other very nasty things with bodily fluids.

Actually I only practice safe sex and I'm not a big fan of anal sex. I guess your argument kinda falls apart at that point. Were you unaware that not all gay men practice anal sex?

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by Nick M

Fags are disgusting perverts.

Seriously, I love you. Never stop.

[Traditio]

Loneliness and isolation. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't think that homosexuals should be discriminated against. I think that if you're gay, then you should be welcomed with open arms into society, and people should treat you with all of the compassion which is owed to you as a human being...and even more, because of your disability.

If you have a sexual inclination towards someone of the same sex, I don't hate you. The Catholic Church's doctrine is that I ought not hate you. The Catholic Church's doctrine is that I ought to love you and have compassion for you.

I don't necessarily think that gay people should share the same bathrooms/changing rooms/dormatoria as straight people do, but for purely prudential reasons, and I don't think that gay people ought to have sexual relationships (out of respect for the Moral Law), nor that they can get married (because it would be a contradiction of terms), but...I don't think that they should be beaten up, murdered, ridiculed, isolated, and otherwise made into social pariahs.

Except for the grace of God, there go I.

I think it's sick that homosexuals demand rights that aren't properly theirs, that aren't properly anyone's...I think it's sick that they have "gay pride rallies," as though anyone should take pride in their sins...but I can understand what it feels like to feel completely lonely and isolated and want contact with another person.

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do these things. They should be treated decently, even if perhaps given no liscence in their inclination to sin.

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Loneliness and isolation. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I don't think that homosexuals should be discriminated against. I think that if you're gay, then you should be welcomed with open arms into society, and people should treat you with all of the compassion which is owed to you as a human being...and even more, because of your disability.

If you have a sexual inclination towards someone of the same sex, I don't hate you. The Catholic Church's doctrine is that I ought not hate you. The Catholic Church's doctrine is that I ought to love you and have compassion for you.

I don't necessarily think that gay people should share the same bathrooms/changing rooms/dormatoria as straight people do, but for purely prudential reasons, and I don't think that gay people ought to have sexual relationships (out of respect for the Moral Law), nor that they can get married (because it would be a contradiction of terms), but...I don't think that they should be beaten up, murdered, ridiculed, isolated, and otherwise made into social pariahs.

Except for the grace of God, there go I.

I think it's sick that homosexuals demand rights that aren't properly theirs, that aren't properly anyone's...I think it's sick that they have "gay pride rallies," as though anyone should take pride in their sins...but I can understand what it feels like to feel completely lonely and isolated and want contact with another person.

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do these things. They should be treated decently, even if perhaps given no liscence in their inclination to sin.

You say that homosexual shouldn't be discriminated against, and then you point out examples of how they should be discriminated against. You say that homosexual deserve compassion as human beings and then you proclaim homosexuals sick for asking for rights you don't agree with.

I don't really care what you think. I've come to the conclusion that religion is a disability. It causes people to take up a paradigm in which they argue that they love their fellow man while at the same time treating them like dirt. I want absolutely nothing to do with the kind of hypocrisy and outright condescension you demonstrated in your post. You want to treat me like I'm less than human and yet argue that I shouldn't be made into a "social pariah" then fine. I would sooner be a social pariah than follow the kind of God who supports your ludicrous kind of thinking.

[Traditio]

Originally Posted by Revelation

You say that homosexual shouldn't be discriminated against, and then you point out examples of how they should be discriminated against. You say that homosexual deserve compassion as human beings and then you proclaim homosexuals sick for asking for rights you don't agree with.

I don't really care what you think. I've come to the conclusion that religion is a disability. It causes people to take up a paradigm in which they argue that they love their fellow man while at the same time treating them like dirt. I want absolutely nothing to do with the kind of hypocrisy and outright condescension you demonstrated in your post. You want to treat me like I'm less than human and yet argue that I shouldn't be made into a "social pariah" then fine. I would sooner be a social pariah than follow the kind of God who supports your ludicrous kind of thinking.

R., I bet you're quite willing to "discriminate" against people of other inclinations in precisely the same way. For example, consider people of other sexual inclinations: bestiality, necrophilia, rape, pedophilia, etc.

I'm guessing that your feelings towards people who have this inclination are either about the same as what I've described as the proper attitude towards gay people, or perhaps violently worse.

How do you feel about the person who feels a very strong tendency to rape? I can describe to you the exact same scenario. "Imagine...everybody calls you 'criminal.' You want desperately to have sexual relations with an unconsenting woman, but you know that everyone expects your sexual relations to be consentual," and just go on and on with the details in the video. The only difference? There are no "rapist newspapers." There are no "rape bars."

But do you at even a single point in time say "yeah, we should let rapists rape women!" I mean, even if there were women out there who have rape fantasies and want to be "taken advantage of," so to speak, you wouldn't say "well fine, let's have these women wear special clothing, and rapists can rape these women." Um...no.

If absolutely any person said "I am predisposed to rape," even if he had never raped anybody, and even if he has no intention whatsoever to rape...there's a chance that he'd be treated worse than described in the video.

Oh sure, sure...homosexual relations can be consentual, whereas the activities I've listed aren't. That's fine. But at this point, I'm not even talking about actions. I'm talking about inclinations. Even for having inclinations, the above people would be treated as highly suspect by other people, treated very...very...very differently. And I'm willing to bet that you think that's alright.

Yet the homosexual inclination is radically different? Tell me...what man chooses to be inclined to rape women? What man chooses to be inclined to have sex with corpses? What man chooses to have any sort of inclination to commit violence/criminal activity? What man chooses that? Tell me! Who? Nobody, that's the answer! I bet the rape-inclined is jealous of you. "If only I," I am sure the rape-inclined thinks, "could fight for some chance to be accepted, for some chance at normality. If only I didn't have to hide and live this 'lie.'"

But I'm willing to bet that if someone told you that he's inclined to rape, you'd call the cops on him. You hippocrit.

There's a very clear difference between people and inclinations. We have all sorts of inclinations that we don't choose, some of which are bad, some of which are good, and most of which aren't oriented to anything of moral significance.

I don't see sexual inclinations as any different. The homosexual inclination is oriented towards an action contrary to the Moral Law.

That said, you are not your inclinations. You have an intrinsic moral worth as a human person, and deserve compassion, respect, love, &c.

That's all that I'm saying. Even as much as I detest the homosexual act and consider it positively abhorrent, you don't have to commit it. You should be encouraged to live a chaste life, and otherwise treated like everyone else. If you didn't act like a total flamer, and you didn't have a horrible personality, and I knew you, and you wanted to associate with me? I'd be your friend.

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by Traditio

R., I bet you're quite willing to "discriminate" against people of other inclinations in precisely the same way. For example, consider people of other sexual inclinations: bestiality, necrophilia, rape, pedophilia, etc.

All of which involve partners that can't consent and therefore are naturally coercive behaviors. Homosexuality occurs between consenting adults.

I'm guessing that your feelings towards people who have this inclination are either about the same as what I've described as the proper attitude towards gay people, or perhaps violently worse.

My feelings are that coercive behaviors are bad.

How do you feel about the person who feels a very strong tendency to rape? I can describe to you the exact same scenario. "Imagine...everybody calls you 'criminal.' You want desperately to have sexual relations with an unconsenting woman, but you know that everyone expects your sexual relations to be consentual," and just go on and on with the details in the video. The only difference? There are no "rapist newspapers." There are no "rape bars."

Coercive behaviors are bad.

But do you at even a single point in time say "yeah, we should let rapists rape women!" I mean, even if there were women out there who have rape fantasies and want to be "taken advantage of," so to speak, you wouldn't say "well fine, let's have these women wear special clothing, and rapists can rape these women." Um...no.

Coercive behaviors are bad.

If absolutely any person said "I am predisposed to rape," even if he had never raped anybody, and even if he has no intention whatsoever to rape...there's a chance that he'd be treated worse than described in the video.

Coercive behaviors are bad.

Oh sure, sure...homosexual relations can be consentual, whereas the activities I've listed aren't. That's fine. But at this point, I'm not even talking about actions. I'm talking about inclinations. Even for having inclinations, the above people would be treated as highly suspect by other people, treated very...very...very differently. And I'm willing to bet that you think that's alright.

Coercive behaviors are bad.

Yet the homosexual inclination is radically different? Tell me...what man chooses to be inclined to rape women? What man chooses to be inclined to have sex with corpses? What man chooses to have any sort of inclination to commit violence/criminal activity? What man chooses that? Tell me! Who? Nobody, that's the answer! I bet the rape-inclined is jealous of you. "If only I," I am sure the rape-inclined thinks, "could fight for some chance to be accepted, for some chance at normality. If only I didn't have to hide and live this 'lie.'"

Whether they choose or not is irrelevant. Their partner cannot consent and therefore it is wrong.

But I'm willing to bet that if someone told you that he's inclined to rape, you'd call the cops on him. You hippocrit.

I"m a hpyocrite for thinking coercive behaviors are bad?

There's a very clear difference between people and inclinations. We have all sorts of inclinations that we don't choose, some of which are bad, some of which are god, and some of which aren't oriented to anything of moral significance.

I don't see sexual inclinations as any different. The homosexual inclination is oriented towards an action contrary to the Moral Law.

That said, you are not your inclinations. You have an intrinsic moral worth as a human person, and deserve compassion, respect, love, &c.

Let me make something very clear to you. The Catholic Church's official position is that homosexual behavior is sin, not homosexual attraction. You aren't even representive of your Church's position? Do you want to know why I say I love Nick even though he has such awful to say about gays? Because he is honest, unlike people like you who have to hide behind lies of compassion and illogical crud like you just presented above. I can respect Nick for being an honest person even if I don't like what he stands for, whereas you are a waste of human existence.