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I'm not deflecting anything - I am merely only interested in the bibles take on judging. Once you remove sin from the equation, we are no longer talking about biblical judgment.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
Slogan/motto:
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Ro 3:26
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November 18th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by csuguy
Wrong - Christ didn't go into the middle of town and start screaming that everyone was going to hell. If you honestly think that is how he approached people - I suggest you read the bible.
He gave grace to the humble. To the proud, puffed up religious zealot, he called them a generation of vipers.
Scripture also calls those professing themselves to be wise, fools. Just sayin'.
Your issue is one of AUTHORITY. All heresy starts and ends where a person sets themselves above God's Word and becomes their own authority. It is disguised as "textual criticism" and "scholarship". All of it ends where the first lie began "Hath God Said?"
Slogan/motto:
commit random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty
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November 18th, 2009, 10:01 PM
it is a good question Knight.
In My theology, God has only two jobs: creation and redemption. notice anything missing? Judgment. I believe that is left to us. And we have taken up the task with lawyers and judges and courts of law. OK, our religions have taken it up too, but that's not right. It's not godly. And it's negative and unattractive. Which may be part of the reasons why religions have fallen on hard times.
If we want to be Godly people, we'd probably find ourselves involved in God's work, creation and redemption and not judgment. Not that those lawyers and others involved in our system of justice are necessarily bad. Our system of justice, imperfect though it is, is probably necessary. We need as much law and order as we can manage consistent with freedom of speech and freedom to pursue happiness. At least until we can all operate on another basis. Love for instance. That may be what Jesus had in mind.
He gave grace to the humble. To the proud, puffed up religious zealot, he called them a generation of vipers.
Christ didn't come for the righteous [aka Pharisees], he came for the sick - the sinners. Scripture supports judging WITHIN the church (like with the Pharisees in Jesus' time), it is our responsibility - outside the church is not our responsibility. I Cor 5.
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Scripture also calls those professing themselves to be wise, fools. Just sayin'.
You should take those words to heart
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
Wrong - Christ didn't go into the middle of town and start screaming that everyone was going to hell. If you honestly think that is how he approached people - I suggest you read the bible.
The example I gave was not going into the middle of a town and screaming that everyone was going to hell. (Stop lying by the way, lying is evil). The example was going to a college, telling people to repent and trust Jesus. Then if they don't warn them of the judgment to come.
You said the above was not the model that Jesus gave. But that is exactly the model that Jesus gave.
Jesus went into towns, told the people they needed to repent, then when they didn't he told them they were going to hell. I gave you chapter and verse. How much clearer could it be?
"Broad is the path that leads to destruction and many are they follow it; but narrow is the path that leads to life and few are them that find it."
The example I gave was not going into the middle of a town and screaming that everyone was going to hell. (Stop lying by the way, lying is evil). The example was going to a college, telling people to repent and trust Jesus. Then if they don't warn them of the judgment to come.
You said the above was not the model that Jesus gave. But that is exactly the model that Jesus gave.
Jesus went into towns, told the people they needed to repent, then when they didn't he told them they were going to hell. I gave you chapter and verse. How much clearer could it be?
You said "This is exactly what Jesus did" in response to my condemnation of the preachers on campus - no Jesus did not act like the preachers on campus. If you saw them - you would be (or should be) appalled. The example was not simply going to college and telling people about Jesus (that is fine and good), the example was in reference to the campus preachers I'VE seen.
Also, while repentance was definately big in Jesus' message, he was not going around attacking people for their sins - that is what campus preachers do. They don't spend time to get to know people, they don't meet their needs - they simply show up and start condemning them - that is NOT Jesus' model.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
Christ didn't go around condemning people as sinners to preach the gospel. Rather, the sinners were the ones whom he spent time with, helped and fed, the ones he ate with. He witnessed to them by first providing for their needs and then teaching them.
Not the unrepentant. You are way off.
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You don't have to pretend that non-Christians are not sinners - to the contrary all are sinners - but that doesn't mean you need to start picking a non-Christian apart for his/her specific sins. It is not our job, and is counter-productive.
Who does that? Aside from telling homos to stop being utterly disgusting perverts that they are.
christians should not judge because by what standard do they have to judge by? They say the rules were nailed to some cross. In their mind they are free to do whatever their hearts so desire. All they think they have to do is ask for forgiveness.
Sometimes we get carried away with "judge not, lest ye be judged." The point to that rule is that in judgment of another's deeds, behaviors, beliefs, etc., we must be very sure of how we have judged ourselves before we judge another. Similar to getting the plank out of our own eye before we can see the sliver in anothers.
We are all made to judge things all of the time. We judge that all other religious belief systems are wrong when we choose Christianity and Yahshuah...that choice is a judgment that all others are wrong for us. We choose a particular car make and model to the exclusion of all others...since this one is right for me, all others are not. That too is judgment.
We are to judge what is good and what is evil and we are to stand against that which is evil.
We are even going to be put in the position to judge angels.
We are created to judge...but God, Yahweh is the final judge...
Sometimes we get carried away with "judge not, lest ye be judged."
Because he didn't stop there. He commanded to judge righteously.
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The point to that rule is that in judgment of another's deeds, behaviors, beliefs, etc., we must be very sure of how we have judged ourselves before we judge another. Similar to getting the plank out of our own eye before we can see the sliver in anothers
.
Not actually similar, but completely. Which is why he said it.
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We are to judge what is good and what is evil and we are to stand against that which is evil.
We are even going to be put in the position to judge angels.
You shouldn't say we, because a whole lot of people here won't do it.
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