Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
I have never said or ever will say, "Happy holidays." Please keep Christ in Christmas.
"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old." -- The Word of God
The Lord can give us new treasure to share, every time we open our mouth or type on the internet, through The Word of Prophecy, with Whom we are filled, and give heed to. The treasure we have is increased every time we speak. Our account in Heaven grows every time we think of Him or share His Word with others. Give of God, and He will give to you; even more than you give. You can't out-give The Giver of Life.
Slogan/motto:
If indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of Grace given to me for you...
Reputation:
November 20th, 2009, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synapse
I am interested to know if people think the 25th of December "Christmas Day" is Biblical or Pagan.
Personally I have stopped celebrating "Christmas" as Jesus Christ's birthday.
I think it is part of the BIG LIE !!!Satan has blinded the whole world and turned Christians into apostates.
What do you think about Christmas, Yule Logs, Xmas trees and other beliefs about Christmas?
Pay attention and read carefully.
Quote:
When Was Christ Born?
Material adapted from appendix 179 of the Companion Bible.
1. All scholars agree that December 25th is not Christ’s birthday. What is the date then? According to 1 Chronicles, there were 24 divisions of the sons of Aaron who ministered in the temple.
1 Chr 24:1,5-19 Now these are the divisions of the sons of Aaron. The sons of Aaron were Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 5 Thus they were divided by lot, one group as another, for there were officials of the sanctuary and officials of the house of God, from the sons of Eleazar and from the sons of Ithamar. 6 And the scribe, Shemaiah the son of Nethanel, one of the Levites, wrote them down before the king, the leaders, Zadok the priest, Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and the heads of the fathers’ houses of the priests and Levites, one father’s house taken for Eleazar and one for Ithamar. 7 Now the first lot fell to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah, 8 the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim, 9 the fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin, 10 the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah, 11 the ninth to Jeshua, the tenth to Shecaniah, 12 the eleventh to Eliashib, the twelfth to Jakim, 13 the thirteenth to Huppah, the fourteenth to Jeshebeab, 14 the fifteenth to Bilgah, the sixteenth to Immer, 15 the seventeenth to Hezir, the eighteenth to Happizzez, 16 the nineteenth to Pethahiah, the twentieth to Jehezekel, 17 the twenty-first to Jachin, the twenty-second to Gamul, 18 the twenty-third to Delaiah, the twenty-fourth to Maaziah. 19 This was the schedule of their service for coming into the house of the LORD according to their ordinance by the hand of Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.
There were 2 ministrations of each division. They started at the commencement of the civil year in the month Ethanim or Tishri, our September-October. Rosh Ha Shanah is Tishri 1. All the divisions served together at the great feasts.
2. Zacharias was of the division of Abijah.
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
3. The first ministration does not fit our calculations to allow for pasture when the shepherds were “living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night” (Luke 2:8). It would put the birth in March. However, the 2nd ministration was 12-18 Sivan, our June 13-19, which would put the birth in the fall.
4. Each ministration began on the Sabbath. Therefore, the day after his ministration was complete, the 20th, was a Sabbath, so Zacharias would stay until the next day, June 21.
5. Zacharias lived in the hill country of Judah (Luke 1:39), about 30 miles away. It would take a man “well advanced in years” (Luke 1:7) probably 2 days to get home. That would make his arrival June 23rd.
6. The miraculous conception of John probably took place the night of June 23-24, 5 B.C.
Luke 1:23-24 And so it was, as soon as the days of his service were completed, that he departed to his own house. 24 Now after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived.
7. The begetting (Mat 1:18) of Christ by the Holy Spirit was the 6th month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy.
Luke 1:26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth. 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!” 29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was.:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.”
8. Therefore, if our suppositions are true, the begetting of Christ 6 months after John was December 25, 5 B.C.
9. After a perfect 280 day gestation, He was born. The date was September 29, 4 B.C.
10. The “Festival of Michael and All Angels” was on September 29. That’s when the heavenly host appeared.
Luke 2:9-14 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: 14 “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”
11. This was on the 1st day of the Feast of Tabernacles.
John 1:14 o logo" sarx egeneto kai eskhnwsen (tabernacled), not katoikew, dwell, found 10 times.
John 1:14 the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. skhnow is only found here and Rev 7:15; 12:12; 13:6; 21:3. All are coupled with the tabernacle except 13:6, believers tabernacling in heaven.
12. Therefore, we should celebrate this great day, December 25th, as Annunciation day when God became flesh.
Now, does decorating a tree in festive lights come from the day of his birth and the gift giving celebrations? Probably not. So what.
It is neither biblical nor Pagan. It was instituted by the Church to celebrate Christ's mass in recognition of His birth. It was given this date to coincide with other festivals, and along the way has picked up some traditions from various cultures.
It isn't a "holy" holiday in the strict sense, but it is the day we celebrate to make the world aware of Christ's humanity through His birth.
To be honest, all this talk about Christmas being pagan just drives more people away from Christianity. maybe we could bypass this idiocy, this year?
(Not holding my breath.)
Muz
I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.
2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
I would never turn down an opportunity to talk about Jesus with family and friends. Besides, telling those close to me that I no longer will celebrate Christmas with them for "religious" reasons, would just make me look like a flake.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
November 20th, 2009, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synapse
I am interested to know if people think the 25th of December "Christmas Day" is Biblical or Pagan.
Personally I have stopped celebrating "Christmas" as Jesus Christ's birthday.
I think it is part of the BIG LIE !!!Satan has blinded the whole world and turned Christians into apostates.
What do you think about Christmas, Yule Logs, Xmas trees and other beliefs about Christmas?
Erm...if this is Satan's big super secret conspiracy I don't think he's getting a very large return on his investment. Christians aren't any more or less idolatrous around Christmas than any other time. Arguably less, I think in fact. And unbelievers...not much of a change there either.
Even were I to grant you both...it still doesn't seem worth all the effort you seem to imply on Satan's part.
Let's put things in perspective: I've become flat out hooked in this t.v. show, "Supernatural". Awfully dreadful show. Very occult, pagan and violent. You'd hate it.
But I haven't missed an episode yet. Just fell in love with the main characters. Oh, and Ellen and Jo got themselves blown to bits giving their lives to hold off some hell hounds coming for Sam and Dean. You know, so they could run off and shoot Satan in the head with the magic Colt pistol they had. Man, I even teared up. I really did. I cannot believe they killed off Ellen and Jo!
My dedication to this ridiculous t.v. show is probably a thousand times worse than celebrating Christmas by the standard presented here. Which is my point.
Really, when you come right down to it, everything we do, observe or participate in other than direct intimate prayerful interaction with God, is idolatrous. Or at least potentially. Get me?
"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4) Rantazia: A personal sanctuary where reason and wrath prevail. Life by fives: my testimony. For good and sufficient reasons, I have no intentions of writing an autobiography.
Slogan/motto:
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose
Reputation:
November 20th, 2009, 09:35 AM
While there are some things that are done during Christmas that can be traced back to pagan sources, it really is a heart issue. If one is not able to separate the pagan from Christmas, it is probably best for them to quietly not participate. However, if we do it for Christ, this is good.
Also, how would Satan's plan be to celebrate the birth of Christ? By using a tree or log, does this some how magically fill up Satan with power?
My favorite Christmas show is Charlie Brown Christmas, when Linus recites from The Bible. That always touches me. God is good, and He loves when we remember Him. Christmas is a way for the whole world to remember Him.
"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old." -- The Word of God
The Lord can give us new treasure to share, every time we open our mouth or type on the internet, through The Word of Prophecy, with Whom we are filled, and give heed to. The treasure we have is increased every time we speak. Our account in Heaven grows every time we think of Him or share His Word with others. Give of God, and He will give to you; even more than you give. You can't out-give The Giver of Life.
What do you think about Christmas, Yule Logs, Xmas trees and other beliefs about Christmas?
Beliefs about Christmas? As in, all the things that happened in Luke and Matthew? That Jesus was born of a virgin and laid in a manger, shepherds came to see him, and he was visited by the three kings? All of which is in the Bible? Or what beliefs about Christmas do you have a problem with?
Christmas itself is not to blame for what St. Nicholas has mutated into into over time, with the reindeer and the flying sleigh... there had been Christmas among Christians for a long, long time before any of that came about.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike."
Slogan/motto:
Just because I'm atheist doesn't mean I'm a lawless anarchist with a brutal distaste for anything religion has to offer.
Reputation:
November 20th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Depends on which "Christmas" you observe. Traditional Christmas involving the story of Jesus is of course Christian. However, some of the more modern practices in Christmas-time do have Pagan origins, though now days it's more Hallmark than Pagan.
It is my understanding that Christmas is originally the Pagan Winter Solstice festival. When the RCC began to convert Pagans to Catholic they figured the easiest way to do that was to keep some from of a mid-winter celebration so that there would be less opposition to becoming Catholic. The came with with Christs Mass which we know today as Christmas. It incorporated many of the pagan traditions and added in the nativity story.
Today, I tend to see it as God "conquering" a pagan holiday and converting it for His glory. So the question then becomes what do you celebrate at Chrsimas? We celebrate the birth of out savior. We decorate our home with a tree and garland and Santa and a nativity scene. We decorate our tree with adornments that we have picked up in our travels and enjoy the memories as we take them out of the boxes. The pagan symbols of the winter solstice are nothing more than pretty decorations. The advent wreath and prayers are part of our celebration of Jesus's birth.
SO Merry Christmas to all. May you enjoy the trimmings of the season for the beauty they bring and may you never forget that what ever the history of Christmas, the reason for the season is now Jesus.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Pagan.. along with Easter, Advent.. and pretty much every other special 'sabbath'.. which the bible told us to ignore.
The Jews had religious holidays that they were to observe forever. Is it wrong for us to have holidays such as Christmas and Easter that we, as Christians, celebrate in honor of God?
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
The Jews had religious holidays that they were to observe forever. Is it wrong for us to have holidays such as Christmas and Easter that we, as Christians, celebrate in honor of God?
Yes... if he wanted us to he would have put it in the scriptures.
From the biblical example, it's hard to point to a single instance of human initiative that was honored by God without his blessing first.
i.e. every time Israel went to war without consulting God and getting his blessing they were defeated..
So when it comes to 'augmenting' religion, I prefer the safe route rather then risk the wrath of God.
Linear Mode
