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Eternal seperation from God and His blessed Presence, and forever in torment..
rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Gal 1:
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Slogan/motto:
Daniel 2:35 NKJV "And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."
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January 22nd, 2010, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom
the second death
what does it mean?
Death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.
And 1 Corinthians 15:26 says: "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".
Satan the Devil is cast into the lake of fire.
And Hebrews 2:14 says: "by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil".
The lake of fire seems to correspond to Gehenna, a term used by Jesus which has direct reference to a literal burning rubbish dump. The fire of Gehenna was used to destroy, not to torment. Dead carcasses full of maggots were said to be there (Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:47-48).
Hence I would conclude that the second death is complete and final destruction.
"Second death" does not mean dying a second time. It means the second kind of death. We all inherit sin, imperfection and death from Adam (Romans 5:12). This Adamic death is the first kind of death. Jesus has the keys of death and hades and so can resurrect us from the first kind of death. But there is no resurrection from the second death. It is everlasting destruction following God's adverse judgement.
Beloved's reference in Revelation ch. 14 has no relevance here whatsoever. The passage does not even mention hell or the lake of fire.
What the Scriptures state about the second death . . .
Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
So "The Second Death" what does it mean?
... . . To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul . . . Psalm 25:1
Death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.
And 1 Corinthians 15:26 says: "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".
Satan the Devil is cast into the lake of fire.
And Hebrews 2:14 says: "by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil".
The lake of fire seems to correspond to Gehenna, a term used by Jesus which has direct reference to a literal burning rubbish dump. The fire of Gehenna was used to destroy, not to torment. Dead carcasses full of maggots were said to be there (Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:47-48).
Hence I would conclude that the second death is complete and final destruction.
"Second death" does not mean dying a second time. It means the second kind of death. We all inherit sin, imperfection and death from Adam (Romans 5:12). This Adamic death is the first kind of death. Jesus has the keys of death and hades and so can resurrect us from the first kind of death. But there is no resurrection from the second death. It is everlasting destruction following God's adverse judgement.
Beloved's reference in Revelation ch. 14 has no relevance here whatsoever. The passage does not even mention hell or the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
What does it mean to burn with fire and brimstone?
Surely you must see it as eternal remorse?
Luke 16:23-14
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.24 "Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all . Psalms 34:19
Location: Precariously balanced on top of a mineshaft
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More left than right
Slogan/motto:
Bah, humbug, moan, grumble, 'never in all my born days' etc....
Reputation:
January 22nd, 2010, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57
Eternal seperation from God and His blessed Presence, and forever in torment..
rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The fact that you salivate so much over this prospect to put a next to it says everything about you....
Death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.
And 1 Corinthians 15:26 says: "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".
Satan the Devil is cast into the lake of fire.
And Hebrews 2:14 says: "by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil".
The lake of fire seems to correspond to Gehenna, a term used by Jesus which has direct reference to a literal burning rubbish dump. The fire of Gehenna was used to destroy, not to torment. Dead carcasses full of maggots were said to be there (Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:47-48).
Hence I would conclude that the second death is complete and final destruction.
"Second death" does not mean dying a second time. It means the second kind of death. We all inherit sin, imperfection and death from Adam (Romans 5:12). This Adamic death is the first kind of death. Jesus has the keys of death and hades and so can resurrect us from the first kind of death. But there is no resurrection from the second death. It is everlasting destruction following God's adverse judgement.
Beloved's reference in Revelation ch. 14 has no relevance here whatsoever. The passage does not even mention hell or the lake of fire.
so does your understanding of the second death negate the need for hell?
Slogan/motto:
Daniel 2:35 NKJV "And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."
Reputation:
January 22nd, 2010, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc
Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
What does it mean to burn with fire and brimstone?
Surely you must see it as eternal remorse?
I would rather say that the lake of fire is for those with no remorse.
Brimstone or sulphur was added to the flames of Gehenna (the burning rubbish dump in the valley of Hinnom) in order to make the fire burn more intensely (and so destroy things faster). The sulphur was not used to torture anybody. So your suggestion doesn't fit the picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc
Luke 16:23-14
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.24 "Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
Hades is not the lake of fire, the second death. Rather, hades is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).
Slogan/motto:
Daniel 2:35 NKJV "And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."
Reputation:
January 22nd, 2010, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom
so does your understanding of the second death negate the need for hell?
In your terminology, yes. The concept of a Catholic-type hell doesn't fit in with other things explained in the Bible. The soul is not intrinsically immortal but dies with the body (Ezekiel 18:4). The dead are really dead. They are conscious of nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Immortality is something that God gives as a reward to his servants (1 Corinthians 15:53-54). It is not something that God bestows upon his enemies.
The Bible teaches the resurrection of the dead, not the immortality of the soul.
Broadly speaking, the Biblical "hell" is a translation of the word "hades". "Hades" refers to the grave (1 Corinthians 15:55 KJV) and may mean literally: "unseen place". This corresponds well with the original meaning of "hell" from the Old English "hellan" meaning "hide". The old expression "helling potatoes" meant, not to roast them, but to cover them with soil as a protection before planting them permanently.
The second death is eternal spiritual separation from God and the remorse and guilt associated with such a condition.
The "hellfire" of scripture is symbolic of the emotional pain one would go through to find themselves in such a state.
Then why does the bible make it literal. To all who is saved there is eternal life. To all who are lost it is the opposite, eternal death. What brings about eternal death? The lake of fire which shall destroy the wicked. The second death is eternal death. The death with no return. The final death without a chance of a resurrection.
Now in the garden of Eden God told Adam and Eve that if they eat of the fruit of knowledge, good and evil they will surely die. The devil said they will not surely die and Eve ate. Now the human race is in turmoil. When God makes it clear that the second death will be the final death physically people still say that it not physical but just a spiritual type of death. In other words, "You will not surely die". Just like those who teach that when you die here you just live on in another form of existence. Repeating the devil's lie. Of such people beware.
God hates them and so do I, thats why He destroys them for their filthy blasphemies and abominations..
This is worrying.
God doesn't hate those who are eternally lost.
1 John 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.
1Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Do you think that God hated us, but then changed his mind when we were saved?
Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all . Psalms 34:19
... . . To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul . . . Psalm 25:1
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