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Reload this Page Roman Catholic Church, edict of March 5, 1616
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justtoocurious justtoocurious is offline
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Roman Catholic Church, edict of March 5, 1616 - February 5th, 2010, 08:42 PM

"The view that the sun stands motionless at the center of the universe is foolish, philosophically false, utterly heretical, because contrary to Holy Scripture. The view that the earth is not the center of the universe and even has a daily rotation is philosophically false, and at least an erroneous belief. " Holy Office, Roman Catholic Church, edict of March 5, 1616





   
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February 5th, 2010, 08:49 PM

"Pope John Paul II issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei." October 31, 1992.





   
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Post February 5th, 2010, 08:53 PM

Of course, this should not be seen as a formal theological definition of the Catholic Church (which it was not), but as a temporal declaration by the "Holy Office" (of Inquisition) which was binding upon baptized Catholics at that particular time and in that specific cultural context (which it was). Obviously, it is not applicable to Catholics today.


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February 5th, 2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justtoocurious View Post
"The view that the sun stands motionless at the center of the universe is foolish, philosophically false, utterly heretical, because contrary to Holy Scripture. The view that the earth is not the center of the universe and even has a daily rotation is philosophically false, and at least an erroneous belief. " Holy Office, Roman Catholic Church, edict of March 5, 1616

A more detailed description:

[edit] The decree of 1616
The Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina prompted the papal authorities to decide whether heliocentrism was acceptable. Galileo was summoned to Rome to defend his position. The Church accepted the use of heliocentrism as a calculating device, but opposed it as a literal description of the solar system. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine himself considered that Galileo's model made "excellent good sense" on the ground of mathematical simplicity; that is, as a hypothesis (see above). And he said:

"If there were a real proof that the Sun is in the center of the universe, that the Earth is in the third sphere, and that the Sun does not go round the Earth but the Earth round the Sun, then we should have to proceed with great circumspection in explaining passages of Scripture which appear to teach the contrary, and we should rather have to say that we did not understand them than declare an opinion false which has been proved to be true. But I do not think there is any such proof since none has been shown to me."
—Koestler (1959), p. 447–448
Bellarmine supported a ban on the teaching of the idea as anything but hypothesis. In 1616 he delivered to Galileo the papal command not to "hold or defend" the heliocentric idea.[45] The Vatican files suggest that Galileo was forbidden to teach heliocentrism in any way whatsoever, but whether this ban was known to Galileo is a matter of dispute.[46]

[edit] Publication of Epitome astronomia Copernicanae (1617-1621)
In Astronomia nova (1609), Johannes Kepler had used an elliptical orbit to explain the motion of Mars. In Epitome astronomia Copernicanae he developed a heliocentric model of the solar system in which all the planets have elliptical orbits. This provided significantly increased accuracy in predicting the position of the planets. Kepler's ideas were not immediately accepted. Galileo for example completely ignored Kepler's work. Kepler proposed heliocentrism as a physical description of the solar system and Epitome astronomia Copernicanae was placed on the index of prohibited books despite Kepler being a Protestant.

[edit] Publication of Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems
Pope Urban VIII encouraged Galileo to publish the pros and cons of Heliocentrism. In the event, Galileo's Dialogue concerning the two chief world systems clearly advocated heliocentrism and appeared to make fun of the Pope. Urban VIII became hostile to Galileo and he was again summoned to Rome.[47] Galileo's trial in 1633 involved making fine distinctions between "teaching" and "holding and defending as true". For advancing heliocentric theory Galileo was put under house arrest for the last few years of his life.

Theologian and pastor Thomas Schirrmacher, however, has argued:

"Contrary to legend, Galileo and the Copernican system were well regarded by church officials. Galileo was the victim of his own arrogance, the envy of his colleagues, and the politics of Pope Urban VIII. He was not accused of criticizing the Bible, but disobeying a papal decree."[48]
According to J. L. Heilbron, Catholic scientists have also:

"appreciated that the reference to heresy in connection with Galileo or Copernicus had no general or theological significance."
—Heilbron (1999)
[edit] Subsequent developments
The Church's opposition to heliocentrism as a literal description did not by any means imply opposition to all astronomy; indeed, it needed observational data to maintain its calendar. In support of this effort it allowed the cathedrals themselves to be used as solar observatories called meridiane; i.e., they were turned into "reverse sundials", or gigantic pinhole cameras, where the Sun's image was projected from a hole in a window in the cathedral's lantern onto a meridian line.

In 1664, Pope Alexander VII published his Index Librorum Prohibitorum Alexandri VII Pontificis Maximi jussu editus (Index of Prohibited Books, published by order of Alexander VII, P.M.) which included all previous condemnations of heliocentric books.[49] An annotated copy of Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica by Isaac Newton was published in 1742 by Fathers le Seur and Jacquier of the Franciscan Minims, two Catholic mathematicians with a preface stating that the author's work assumed heliocentrism and could not be explained without the theory.[50] In 1758 the Catholic Church dropped the general prohibition of books advocating heliocentrism from the Index of Forbidden Books.[51] Pope Pius VII approved a decree in 1822 by the Sacred Congregation of the Inquisition to allow the printing of heliocentric books in Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism





   
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February 6th, 2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justtoocurious View Post
"The view that the sun stands motionless at the center of the universe is foolish, philosophically false, utterly heretical, because contrary to Holy Scripture. The view that the earth is not the center of the universe and even has a daily rotation is philosophically false, and at least an erroneous belief. " Holy Office, Roman Catholic Church, edict of March 5, 1616
Thanks, justtoocurious.

Perfect example how easily the "infallibles" have passed their judgements what / who was "utterly heretical" and condemned to be roasted.

Do their followers know what they say passing judgement that some (like me) are heretics?





   
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February 6th, 2010, 09:14 AM

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Originally Posted by jerzy View Post
Perfect example how easily the "infallibles" have passed their judgements what / who was "utterly heretical" and condemned to be roasted.

I'm glad you put "infallibles" in quotations marks. How unfortunate it would be for someone without a grasp of the concept to attempt to put the term to serious use.





   
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February 6th, 2010, 09:20 AM

Everyone keeps desperately trying to demonstrate that some pope or another "infallibly" taught that geocentrism was an article of faith at some time or another. Not only does this stem from a (typically) imprecise understanding of the Catholic doctrine of infallibility, the best they can ever do is use the inquisition's statements against Galileo in 1616 and 1633, which were not even authored by the pope. Though it is true that Urban VIII did favor geocentrism (primarily out of deference to Ptolmey,) and authorized the inquisition to take action against Galileo in 1633 (after defending him for many years, authorizing him to publish his "Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems," and opposing the ruling against him in 1616.)

If you're actually "curious," do some real research instead of just copying and pasting from websites that have no idea what they're on about.







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February 6th, 2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
"Pope John Paul II issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei." October 31, 1992.
Took 'em long enough.





   
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February 6th, 2010, 09:35 AM

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Took 'em long enough.
sorry about that







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February 6th, 2010, 09:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Peripatetic View Post
Took 'em long enough.
Was the world holding its collective breath in anticipation?





   
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February 6th, 2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
I'm glad you put "infallibles" in quotations marks. How unfortunate it would be for someone without a grasp of the concept to attempt to put the term to serious use.
Hasn't the RCC been claiming infallibility?





   
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February 6th, 2010, 11:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Everyone keeps desperately trying to demonstrate that some pope or another "infallibly" taught that geocentrism was an article of faith at some time or another. Not only does this stem from a (typically) imprecise understanding of the Catholic doctrine of infallibility, the best they can ever do is use the inquisition's statements against Galileo in 1616 and 1633, which were not even authored by the pope. Though it is true that Urban VIII did favor geocentrism (primarily out of deference to Ptolmey,) and authorized the inquisition to take action against Galileo in 1633 (after defending him for many years, authorizing him to publish his "Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems," and opposing the ruling against him in 1616.)

If you're actually "curious," do some real research instead of just copying and pasting from websites that have no idea what they're on about.
On what bases did the "Church" become corrector of heretics?





   
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February 6th, 2010, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
Was the world holding its collective breath in anticipation?
Since God has removed their killing powers world has collectively forgotten who they really are.





   
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February 6th, 2010, 11:32 AM

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Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
I'm glad you put "infallibles" in quotations marks. How unfortunate it would be for someone without a grasp of the concept to attempt to put the term to serious use.
Jerzy, Catholics use "infallibles" for defense. When ever a Pope says something that is completely false or just stupid. (Which is quite often)
The Catholics are quick to point out, "He wasn't speaking infallibly bla bla bla".





   
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February 6th, 2010, 11:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
Jerzy, Catholics use "infallibles" for defense. When ever a Pope says something that is completely false or just stupid. (Which is quite often)
The Catholics are quick to point out, "He wasn't speaking infallibly bla bla bla".
what should we do when you say something that is completely false or just stupid?







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