[Untellectual]

Can a Person Know I am Saved by My Works (James 2:24)?

Matthew 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn {bushes} nor figs from thistles, are they?

Matthew 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Works aren't what saves a person, but the grace of God in Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

But, is it important that we know who is saved and who is not? Do we get to make that judgment?

In the same vein, can we even have fellowship with people who are not "saved"?

I have two friends who have renounced their faith in Christ and Christianity... they still want to be friends. But I can't fellowship with them.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

This is a good rule.

Matthew 3:8 "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;

Still though, everyone needs to depart from wickedness.

1 Peter 4:17 For {it is} time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if {it} {begins} with us first, what {will be} the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

What is distinguishing about a Christian?

Romans 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled {the} law.

Romans 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of {the} law.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.

Shalom,

Jacob

[Ktoyou]

Salvation is through Grace. We cannot tell by ones works. We may come to believe one is saved, but not by works because good works can be done by this without Grace, we all no atheists who have good intentions and work for what seems, the good.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Ktoyou

Salvation is through Grace. We cannot tell by ones works. We may come to believe one is saved, but not by works because good works can be done by this without Grace, we all no atheists who have good intentions and work for what seems, the good.

Romans 3:23 for all have [fn] sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.

Maybe this is slightly out of context, though there may be some application. I see comparisons all the time. How do we know what is truely good? For, every person knows to do right. If we decide that we are more right than someone else, how do we know? And yet, there is supposed to be a recognizable difference between believers and non-believers.

So, maybe these verses aren't about comparing ourselves to others, but instead give us truths that can help us. But, how do they help us?

1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Here are the remaining matches:

Deuteronomy 7:9 "Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

John 5:42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

1 John 2:5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

1 John 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 John 4:16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

Revelation 2:19 'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.

Shalom,

Jacob

[Untellectual]

1 John 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 2:5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

1 John 2:6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

I know a person can act the part. What if I have trouble telling the difference, even if I am just considering myself?

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the {child} born of Him.

1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

1 John 5:18 We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

[Untellectual]

2 Corinthians 13:5 Test yourselves {to see} if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?

[csuguy]

Works can't pay for your sins - but they are a requirement for salvation. All who bare no fruit will be cut down.

[The Berean]

Originally Posted by csuguy

Works can't pay for your sins - but they are a requirement for salvation. All who bare no fruit will be cut down.

Doesn't being a "requirement" imply that one must do works BEFORE one gains salvation? At least that's how I understood your statement.

[Mike C.]

You shall know a tree by its fruits, but sometimes a tree can bear rotten fruit. What it can't do is produce a different kind of fruit. And not everyone knows enough botany to identify types of fruit.

Usually what I do is look for evidence of the Spirit of God in their life. What I look for is evidence of a changed life, at least a basic understanding of the Spirit of God working in one's life, having devoted one's heart completely to God (sincere love of God), knowledge that is spiritually discerned, continuance in faith, humility, and devotion to good works. The knowledge one is the most specious, since spiritual knowledge can be heard from others and believed without having discerned it on one's own (through the Spirit). The works one can also be specious for reasons already stated. But I always keep in mind that everyone is a potential thief on the cross. God works in the background and his work is not always evident.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by csuguy

Works can't pay for your sins - but they are a requirement for salvation. All who bare no fruit will be cut down.

Are you saying Christ died for our sins, but if we don't have works we won't be saved?

Romans 7:13 Therefore did that which is good become {a cause} {of} death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Romans 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law {comes} the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Shalom,

Jacob

[kmoney]

I John 4:12: No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love having been perfected is in us.
I John 4:13: By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because of His Spirit He has given to us.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by The Berean

Doesn't being a "requirement" imply that one must do works BEFORE one gains salvation? At least that's how I understood your statement.

I think I'm understanding what he said in an equivalent way to what you are saying here.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Shalom,

Jacob

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

You shall know a tree by its fruits, but sometimes a tree can bear rotten fruit. What it can't do is produce a different kind of fruit. And not everyone knows enough botany to identify types of fruit.

Usually what I do is look for evidence of the Spirit of God in their life. What I look for is evidence of a changed life, at least a basic understanding of the Spirit of God working in one's life, having devoted one's heart completely to God (sincere love of God), knowledge that is spiritually discerned, continuance in faith, humility, and devotion to good works. The knowledge one is the most specious, since spiritual knowledge can be heard from others and believed without having discerned it on one's own (through the Spirit). The works one can also be specious for reasons already stated. But I always keep in mind that everyone is a potential thief on the cross. God works in the background and his work is not always evident.

At times I know I am (saved), and other times I feel that I can't be. Think understanding (the grace of God) (in) the truth has a lot to do with whether a person is fully assured or not. Meaning, we may have doubts because we don't understanding things rightly... or we may understand but we doubt our understanding and don't know what to do with what we know. For example, if I find any impurity in myself, I tend to think that my salvation should be drawn into question because I believe one who is born of God does not sin. But, I can't do any works to be born of God, or born again of the Spirit, so then I realize that people sin but that fact does not directly correspond to the fact of His grace. So, if grace is grace, then why is it that people say Jesus died for the sins of the world and yet a person can't know they are saved? It seems that if we just acknowledge our knowledge, and don't recognize the reality of it, then we are lacking in our understanding. But, if we are (still) found to be sinners, that is not God's fault.

Galatians 2:17 "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Galatians 2:18 "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

Galatians 2:19 "For through the [fn] Law I died to the [fn] Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the [fn] life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the [fn] Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Shalom,

Jacob

[OMEGA]

Re 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:

and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:

and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:

and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
===================================

[Mike C.]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

At times I know I am (saved), and other times I feel that I can't be. Think understanding (the grace of God) (in) the truth has a lot to do with whether a person is fully assured or not. Meaning, we may have doubts because we don't understanding things rightly... or we may understand but we doubt our understanding and don't know what to do with what we know. For example, if I find any impurity in myself, I tend to think that my salvation should be drawn into question because I believe one who is born of God does not sin. But, I can't do any works to be born of God, or born again of the Spirit, so then I realize that people sin but that fact does not directly correspond to the fact of His grace. So, if grace is grace, then why is it that people say Jesus died for the sins of the world and yet a person can't know they are saved? It seems that if we just acknowledge our knowledge, and don't recognize the reality of it, then we are lacking in our understanding. But, if we are (still) found to be sinners, that is not God's fault.

There's been times my mind has been confused about my standing with God, but I could never doubt it in my heart. If you're asking how a person knows about their own salvation, the birth of the Spirit of God is all a Christian needs. God is true to his promise no matter what I do, for I didn't earn my salvation but it was freely given while I was a rebellious sinner. If I am in a rut or a dark spot, I know what God has done for me and that he cannot lie. Let God be true and every man (including myself) be called a liar. Someone knows if their heart is fully given to God, and if it has never been so, they know they are in rebellion. It's just that many people (I'm talking of non-believers now) are very good at lying to themselves about how they really feel. But once God changes the core of your being (your spirit) there is no going back.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

the birth of the Spirit of God is all a Christian needs.

What do you mean by, "the birth of the Spirit of God"? Is that a typo?

Thanks for your post.