[Untellectual]

csuguy,

I read your post, but you do not acknowledge the verses in the OP. Have you looked at them?

Shalom,

Jacob

[chrysostom]

the first time you were born
you came out of your mother's body
the next time you are born
you will come out of the body you are currently occupying

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

the first time you were born
you came out of your mother's body
the next time you are born
you will come out of the body you are currently occupying

Have you read the verses in the OP?

Shalom,

Jacob

[csuguy]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

csuguy,

I read your post, but you do not acknowledge the verses in the OP. Have you looked at them?

Shalom,

Jacob

I did look at them and I addressed them in my post.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by csuguy

I did look at them and I addressed them in my post.

Do you mean you disagree?

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Take a look at the tenses... how are these instances future?

Shalom,

Jacob

[csuguy]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Do you mean you disagree?

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Take a look at the tenses... how are these instances future?

Shalom,

Jacob

Look at my post - I addressed it. Things which are not are treated as if they were. We know we haven't been born again - for we have not been transformed and received our spiritual bodies from our spiritual rebirth. I Cor 15.

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Have you read the verses in the OP?

Shalom,

Jacob

yes but there is little agreement as to what born again really means
so
if you really want to communicate
why
use a phrase that is most likely misunderstood
and
all you end up doing is parroting what you find in the Bible

[csuguy]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

the first time you were born
you came out of your mother's body
the next time you are born
you will come out of the body you are currently occupying

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by csuguy

Look at my post - I addressed it. Things which are not are treated as if they were. We know we haven't been born again - for we have not been transformed and received our spiritual bodies from our spiritual rebirth. I Cor 15.

1 Corinthians 15 is not talking about being born again, and I have been born again. So, maybe you haven't been born again, but I have. It's not a "as if it were true" situation. It is either true or not. For those Peter was addressing, it was true. For me, it is true. Why not for you? You defer to the resurrection, which is another topic.

Shalom,

Jacob

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

yes but there is little agreement as to what born again really means
so
if you really want to communicate
why
use a phrase that is most likely misunderstood
and
all you end up doing is parroting what you find in the Bible

Then your understanding of spiritual things is not informed by the Bible?

Do you agree that people have been born again... people Peter was talking to?

Shalom,

Jacob

[csuguy]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

1 Corinthians 15 is not talking about being born again, and I have been born again. So, maybe you haven't been born again, but I have. It's not a "as if it were true" situation. It is either true or not. For those Peter was addressing, it was true. For me, it is true. Why not for you? You defer to the resurrection, which is another topic.

Shalom,

Jacob

Yes - I Cor 15 is talking about being reborn! Its talking about being reborn and recieving our spiritual bodies.

But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

You must be reborn of the HS - and thus receive a spiritual body - to be saved!

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by csuguy

Yes - I Cor 15 is talking about being reborn! Its talking about being reborn and recieving our spiritual bodies.

But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

You must be reborn of the HS - and thus receive a spiritual body - to be saved!

Why don't you believe Peter was talking to people who were alive?

Why do you believe he was saying "as if you were born again, but not that you are?"

Shalom,

Jacob

[csuguy]

John 3:6-8 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[b] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

To be born of the Spirit means to receive a spiritual body. We will not receive this until the end days!

[csuguy]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Why don't you believe Peter was talking to people who were alive?

Why do you believe he was saying "as if you were born again, but not that you are?"

Shalom,

Jacob

I have already addressed this. Things which aren't are talked about as if they were - for in God's eyes we are effectively his sons right now, even though we have yet to be reborn and receive our spiritual bodies. Why don't you believe John and Paul?

[Untellectual]

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Caused means that it has happened. I'm not talking about getting a new body. Jesus spoke of being born again. The first time, you are born of water (from your mother's womb). The second time, you are born of God (of the Spirit).

Titus 3:5 is another verse that says this. Do you believe this regeneration spoken of has never occured in anyone?

Shalom,

Jacob