[Apollos]

agape –

You skirted the issues I presented and then contradicted yourself.

You want to say quote James, that “faith without works is dead”, and yet you turn around and print “Faith alone = salvation.” Baloney! It does NOT !! Not one scripture will affirm the heresy of “faith only” or “faith alone”.

You are just another one of those “in between” types you cannot stand to admit that man MUST DO SOMETHING in order to appropriate salvation from God. You want to act like man doesn’t have to do anything (except “believe”) in order to obtain salvation from God.

What about repentance ??? What about confession ??? Are these necessary or not agape???

You see, really, all we are disagreeing about is HOW MANY things man MUST do in order to appropriate the salvation from God given by His grace.

Once you admit man MUST DO SOMETHING in order to be saved, you will be that much closer to finding the truth on water baptism.

Now will you answer the items above – Is repentance and confession necessary ???

Hmmm???

[drbrumley]

Apolos, You are the haratic. You have not the ability or the desire to know the truth. You and people like you. I have given you the truth of the word yet you cannot give up your prideful way. It is not those of faith that receive the judgement of hell but those who have troden under foot the son of man. I don't care if you have been baptized a dozen times, Your works will testify against you at judgement. Your words will convict you. Go your way in peace and may the Holy Spitit inlighten you to the truth and you too be saved. By there fruit you shall know them.

[Kevin]

Apollos,

Amen buddy. Keep up the good work in the hopes that logic, wisdom, and truth may prevail.

[Kevin]

drbrumley,

Apolos, You are the haratic. You have not the ability or the desire to know the truth. You and people like you. I have given you the truth of the word yet you cannot give up your prideful way. It is not those of faith that receive the judgement of hell but those who have troden under foot the son of man. I don't care if you have been baptized a dozen times, Your works will testify against you at judgement. Your words will convict you. Go your way in peace and may the Holy Spitit inlighten you to the truth and you too be saved. By there fruit you shall know them.

Your empty rhetoric has no scriptual backing. You are the one who is blinded by pride, and can't accept the simple concept that God requires us to do something in order to be saved. How can one "obey" the gospel without doing something? Well?

When we stand before God, we will be judged by our WORKS (Rev 20:12). Yes our WORKS - things we DID. Any reasonable person can see that if we are going to be judged by our works, then works must have a role in our salvation or else we would not be judged by them!

[drbrumley]

Kevin,

Apolos, You are the haratic. You have not the ability or the desire to know the truth. You and people like you. I have given you the truth of the word yet you cannot give up your prideful way. It is not those of faith that receive the judgement of hell but those who have troden under foot the son of man. I don't care if you have been baptized a dozen times, Your works will testify against you at judgement. Your words will convict you. Go your way in peace and may the Holy Spitit inlighten you to the truth and you too be saved. By there fruit you shall know them.

This is not me. This would be Dan37's post, not mine.

[drbrumley]

The Catholic church contends that baptism is necessary for salvation:

"The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." Pg. 320, #1257

All Catholics should be aware that the Lord does not agree with this statement. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift that works can never buy. This doctrine was devised by Catholicism:

"The Church does not know of any other means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude..." Pg. 320, #1257
"The faithful are born anew by Baptism..." Pg. 311, #1212

"Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, and are incorporated into the Church..." Pg. 312, #1213


The Bible could not disagree more:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

Despite Bible verses like these, the Catechism teaches that:

"Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,' an adopted son of God, who has become a 'partaker of the divine nature,' member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit." Pg. 322, #1265
"By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin." Pg. 321, #1263 (See pg. 257, #985)


All these doctrines violate a host of Scriptures. The Bible teaches that only Christ can forgive our sins, performing a "good work" like baptism will never do it:

"In whom we have redemption through his (Christ's) blood, the forgiveness of sins..." Ephesians 1:7

If baptism is necessary for salvation, would the Apostle Paul have proclaimed:

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." 1 Corinthians 1:17

Or would this same great man of God have stated:

"I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" 1 Corinthians 1:14

John the Baptist's message was:

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:2

After people repented, then they were...

"... baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins." Matthew 3:6

Listen to what the Ethiopian eunuch asked Philip as they discussed the subject of baptism:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36-37

The Bible teaches that baptism should occur after salvation, not as a requirement for salvation. When the Philippian jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Paul answered:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:30, 31, 33

First, they believed, then they were baptized. Baptism always follows salvation! Here's another example:

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." Acts 18:8

In Acts chapter two, Peter, the supposed first pope, preached. When he finished:

"... they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41

Again, they were baptized, not to become sons of God, but because they already were sons of God.

When Philip preached to the people of Samaria, first came salvation, then baptism:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12

Soon after in that same passage, Simon, a deceiving sorcerer, followed the same path:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip..." Acts 8:13

The Catechism states:

"All the sacraments are sacred links uniting the faithful with one another and binding them to Jesus Christ, and above all Baptism, the gate by which we enter into the Church." Pg. 248, #950

Just before his death, the thief on the cross next to Jesus put his faith in Jesus Christ. Obviously, he was never baptized, but he still went to paradise. Why? Because salvation is through faith in Christ, not through baptism.

The Catechism also contends that when a person is baptized, it is really Jesus Himself who is doing the baptizing:

"By his (Christ's) power he is present in the sacraments so that when anybody baptizes, it is really Christ himself who baptizes." Pg. 283, #1088

Simply stated, this is another Catholic tradition not found in God's Word.

Another Contradiction

Here is another Catholic doctrine:

"Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." Pg. 324, #1274

But the Bible disagrees again, stating that the eternal destiny of God's children has been sealed with the Holy Spirit:

"... in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30


Conclusion

Is baptism necessary for salvation? Catholic tradition and God's Word are at odds. The Catechism says "yes." God's Word says "no."

Who will you believe?

[Kevin]

drbrumley,

This is not me. This would be Dan37's post, not mine.

That's odd. It has your name on it.

[HopeofGlory]

Kevin,

I've already addressed how one can do good works without having faith. Address it.

This type of statement displays your lack of knowledge in the word of God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Rom. 3:12 (KJV)

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Rom. 7:18 (KJV)
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Rom. 7:19 (KJV)

Without Christ in us it is impossible to perform good works, therefore good works can only manifest in us after salvation.

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:14 (KJV)
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. Titus 2:15 (KJV)

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Heb. 13:20 (KJV)
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Heb. 13:21 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

[drbrumley]

Kevin,

I know it is odd. He was logged in under my name. Sorry for the confusion.

[HopeofGlory]

Evangelion,


I said:
Do you understand, believe, and accept the book of acts in that it applies directly to you as it did to Israel at Pentecost?

Your response:
Yes, I do. Especially Pentecost. (Baptism for the remission of sins.)

My reply:
If you believe the Pentecostal doctrine applies to you then why do you not do the things that He says to do????

I said:
Scripture can be quoted but "faith" in it is required to recieve its blessings.

Your response:
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. We cannot have faith without understanding. Philip explained Isaiah 53, and the eunuch was baptised on the basis of his understanding.

My reply:
"From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh"

Hearing in the above verse is believing but all that hear do not believe.

I said:
The testimony given by the eunuch was..."I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God". Devils believe this much!

Your response:
That was his testimony, yes. It proves that he now understood Isaiah 53 to be a reference to Jesus Christ - the man who was slain so that he (the eunuch) might have life. So thankyou for proving my point.

My reply:
You have proved my point!

Not mentioned in Isaiah 53:

Faith

How to obtain remission of sins

Shed blood of Christ

What the eunuch said does not "prove" that he understood that faith in the shed blood of Christ was for remission of sins.

... possessed with devils..Matt. 8:28 (KJV)
cried out, saying, ... Jesus, thou Son of God...Matt. 8:29 (KJV)

Are these possessed of devils saved?
Do they have faith?
I think not!



You said:
Correct. We are saved by grace through faith.

I said:
Faith in what?


Your response:
In the saving power of Christ's sacrifice...

I said:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25 (KJV)
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26 (KJV)
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom. 3:27 (KJV)


Your response:
I agree with all of this. What's your point?

My reply:
Not mentioned at Pentecost or to the eunuch:

Christ died for our sins

Faith in the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins

You have received a doctrine that is void of our faith.

I said:
How do we recieve remission of sins?

Your response:
By a faithful confession of our sins, and submission to baptism.

My reply:
Wrong!

Without faith in the shed blood of Christ there is no remission of sins.

I said:
Is Acts 2:38 the gospel of our salvation?

Your response:
Not entirely.

My reply:
I agree!!!

You said:
The shed blood of Christ for remission of sins is taken for granted in verse 38.

My reply:
The shed blood of Christ should never be "taked for granted".

You said:
The fact that it is not specifically mentioned, is irrelevant.

My reply:

Heresy!

The shed blood of Christ is the "new" testament for remission of sins.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28 (KJV)


In Christ
Craig

[Kevin]

drbrumley,

I'm not Catholic, but I do agree with them on the necessity of baptism for salvation.

The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift that works can never buy.

God's grace is free in the sense that there was nothing that sinful man could do to earn salvation. Nothing. God offered grace when He didn't have to. We are indebted to Him forever.

However, works does play a role in our salvation. We don't do works because we are trying to earn our salvation, for no amount of works could ever atone for our sins. We do good works because we are expected to obey God's commandments. We do good works because we are obedient to God's commandments. Obeying God's commandments is absolutely essential for our salvation. Observe:

1 John 2:4
4) He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in them.

It's really quite simple. If we claim to know Jesus Christ, yet do not keep His commandments, we are liars, and the truth is not in us. Liars will not be in heaven. So, now that we know that we must keep His commandments, how can we do that without doing works? Can you answer this?

Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, and are incorporated into the Church..." Pg. 312, #1213


The Bible could not disagree more:

Actually, the Bible wholeheartedly agrees with is. Try reading Romans 6:1-11. It is speaking about baptism and that it allows us to walk in the newness of life (being reborn), and being free from sin.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

Yes, but it's not a dead belief that is being spoken of here. James chapter 2 clearly says that faith only is a dead faith. Dead faith doesn't save anybody. It is the people who act on their belief who are in position to recieve God's saving grace. We are to obey the gospel, not just hear and believe.

When Christ was preaching in His ministry, He made it quite clear that obedience to His commandments are absolutely necessary. If you say that you have faith in Christ, yet you don't do the things that He commands us to do, do you honestly think He will find favor in them? No way. Just as He said:

Matt. 7:21
21)Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who DOES the will of My Father in heaven..

So, the people who make it into heaven are those who DO the will of the Father, not those who simply hear and believe and do not keep His commandments. For people to DO the will of the Father, people must actually DO something - WORK!! Yes, believe it or not, God actually requires us to do things!

Can you explain to me how one can "do the will of the Father" without actually doing something (works)?

Hebrews 5:9 clearly states that Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who "OBEY" Him. Can you explain to me how we can show our obedience to Him without actually doing something (works)?

If baptism is necessary for salvation, would the Apostle Paul have proclaimed:

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." 1 Corinthians 1:17

Or would this same great man of God have stated:

"I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" 1 Corinthians 1:14

Try going back and taking what Paul said in context. He said those things because the Corinthians were being divided over who baptized them. Paul's purpose was to preach the gospel, and part of that gospel message was BAPTISM. How else do you think they heard it? They then obeyed the gospel by being baptized in the name of the Lord. Baptism was commanded by the Lord and it was carried out. Nowhere in here does it say that baptism isn't necessary. Paul would never teach that obey Jesus's commandments are not necessary! You, and others alike, take this way out of context in a desparate (and futile) attempt to disprove baptism's necessary.

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36-37

The Bible teaches that baptism should occur after salvation

Wrong. It is your assumption that these people were saved before baptism. If they didn't obey the command of baptism, which is one of His commandments, then they are liars, and the truth is not in them as previously stated in 1John 2:4. Liars won't be in heaven!!

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Peter was present with Christ when he spoke these words:

• Matthew 26:27-28.And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
  
• John 6:53-56.
  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
  He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
  
• John 12:32-33.
  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
  This he said, signifying what death he should die.

These passages clearly declare the remission of sins through the shed blood of Christ. Peter would have understood them perfectly.

Faith in his shed blood for remission is the very essence of our salvation unto eternal life. We are saved the moment be believe He died for our sins. Those at Pentecost did not have this faith and thus did not receive eternal life. The kingdom promised was put on hold and it was offered to the Gentiles because they did not believe. It is never even mentioned to them at Pentecost that Christ died for their sins. Not one word about a "new" testament for remission of their sins. Where is what we have faith in mentioned at Pentecost?

The apostles did not believe in his shed blood and they had no understanding of it. Their remission of sins came through water baptism. They were not baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ through faith.

Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:20 (KJV)
But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. Luke 22:21 (KJV)
And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed! Luke 22:22 (KJV)
And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing. Luke 22:23 (KJV)
And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. Luke 22:24 (KJV)

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. Luke 22:28 (KJV)
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Luke 22:29 (KJV)
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:30 (KJV)
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: Luke 22:31 (KJV)
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:32 (KJV)

The apostles argued among themselves as our Savior was telling them of the power of his shed blood and speaks of Peter being converted. Peter will later be converted with the truth of these words Christ spoke.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:53 (KJV)
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54 (KJV)

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said,This is an hard saying; who can hear it? John 6:60 (KJV)
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? John 6:61 (KJV)
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? John 6:62 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63 (KJV)
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64 (KJV)
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65 (KJV)
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 6:66 (KJV)
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? John 6:67 (KJV)
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. John 6:68 (KJV)
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. John 6:69 (KJV)
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? John 6:70 (KJV)

The sower soweth the word. Mark 4:14 (KJV)
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Mark 4:15 (KJV)

Jesus was telling them the way to eternal life is faith in his blood but it offends them. Peter says that Jesus has the words but he does not say he has faith in it. Peter does say that he believes Jesus is the Son of God. Remember in Luke 22:32 Jesus said that he would be converted later on. Jesus said he chose the twelve and one is a devil. His choosing them was not based on their faith in the new testament which baptizes us into the body by the Spirit. His choice was based on their belief that he was the Son of God and they could be a witness to his death.

In Christ
Craig

[Kevin]

Hope of Glory,

This type of statement displays your lack of knowledge in the word of God.

Whatever. Your ignorance is only highlighted when you claim that Phillip didn't preach Christ's death to the eunuch. Evangelion crushed this assertion with:

"The eunuch was reading Isaiah 53. He knew that it was talking about an innocent man who had suffered unjustly, but he didn't know who the man was. So he asked Philip to explain Isaiah 53 - which Philip did. Subsequently, the eunuch was baptised.

Now, would anyone like to tell me how Philip could have explained the Christological significance of Isaiah 53 without making reference to the sacrifice of Christ, and the salvation we obtain through his death and resurrection?"

You failed to answer it. It's hard to admit when you're wrong, isn't it. I don't think you are in a position to judge my knowledge of the word of God.

---------------------------

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Rom. 3:12 (KJV)

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Rom. 7:18 (KJV)

Ok, I'll give it to you that somebody who does not know God cannot do good things in God's sight. However, one who does not know God can do the same works that are considered good works by a Christian.

For example, the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into hell because of their lack of good works. You can't tell me that they didn't have faith, for they recognized Jesus as Lord, as well as calling Him their Lord. These passages are proof that somebody can have faith without works, which according to Dan37 is impossible.

Now, some examples mentioned in those passages are:

1) "I was hungry, and you gave me no food". Are you willing to make the bold assertion that there has never been a person, who did not believe in God, who didn't feed a hungry person?

2) "I was a stranger, and you did not take me in." Are you willing to make the bold assertion that there has never been a person, who did not believe in God, who didn't take in a stranger?

3) "Sick and in prison, and you did not visit me." Are you willing to make the bold assertion that there has never been a person, who did not believe in God, who didn't visit a person in prison?

Now, I realize that because none of this means anything to God, that it doesn't really matter. I just wanted to clarify that people who do not know God CAN and DO do the same works that are considered "Good works" when done by Christians with faith.

None of this changes the fact that the people who are going to make it are the ones who DO the will of the Father in heaven (Matt. 7:21). It is impossible to "DO" the will of the Father without doing something --- WORKS!

[HopeofGlory]

Evangelion,

I said:
If you truly had faith in His blood you would have the knowledge to understand the power of God to forgive sins without water baptism.

You asked:
Show me where this is written in Scripture.

My reply:
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

You said:
Here, read this:

I John 5:2-4.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

If you're not keeping God's commandments, you're not one of His children. If you're not one of His children, you're not going to be saved.

Can you tell me how we might be saved without obeying Christ? Can you tell me that?

My reply:
Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. Luke 12:33 (KJV)

... go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. Mark 10:21 (KJV)

Have you obeyed as did the church at Pentecost??????

Answer the question!!!

Is the answer no?

Are you saved?

You said:
Obedience to Christ does not count as a "work."

My reply:
So then, is this obedience you're referring to a righteous work?

Your response:
Yes, this obedience I am referring to is a righteous work. And a righteous work is not counted as a "work" in the sense of something which earns you something else. People were even permitted to perform righteous works on the Sabbath day. What does that tell you?

My reply:
Double talk!
If water baptisim is a righteous work why is it that you believe it is required for salvation?
Can can't say something is required and then say it doesn't count
toward that same something it is required for.
Explain!

You said:
When Paul refers to "works", he refers to the works of the Law of Moses. Your entire argument is based on a false equivocation.

My reply:
Reading into scriptures words that are clearly not there is not allowed. "Works of the law" does not specifically refer to the law of Moses.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. Rom. 4:2 (KJV)

Your point is works=works of the law of Moses? Is that right?

You said:
I should have been more specific. Paul does not always mean the Law of Moses - but most often, he does. In this case, he merely reminds us that Abraham did not earn his salvation, which is perfectly true.

My reply:

You said "but most often, he does".

Are you sure?

If you're not specific about a doctrine something will be taken for granted and a false understanding can be the result.

You said:
Salvation is not an instant event. Salvation is something which comes as the result of a lifelong process.

My reply:
You're dead wrong!

In Christ
Craig

[Prisca]

You said, “But the Bible disagrees again, stating that the eternal destiny of God's children has been sealed with the Holy Spirit:

‘... in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,’ Ephesians 1:13
‘And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.’ Ephesians 4:30”

You are right on. Sadly, the word “sealed” doesn’t hold as much significance in today’s society as it once did. We can get a different feel for the meaning of this word by looking at the following verses:

Esth. 8:8 “You yourselves write a decree concerning the Jews, as you please, in the king’s name, and seal it with the king’s signet ring; for whatever is written in the king’s name and sealed with the king’s signet ring no one can revoke.”

Dan. 6:17 Then a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signets of his lords, that the purpose concerning Daniel might not be changed.

Rev. 5:1-5 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

I’d like to stress that, as Christians in the Body of Christ, we were sealed and given the Holy Spirit as a guarantee:

2Cor. 1:20-22 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

What God has sealed, no one can revoke!