[c.moore]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Francisco
c.moore,

If water baptism was no longer necessary, having been replaced with 'Spiritual' baptism, why did Philip baptize the eunuch with water in Acts 8?

Why did Peter insist on water for baptizing the gentiles in Cornelius house in Acts 10? After all, these men already had the Holy Spirit descend on them.

What was Paul talking about when he told the crowd at Jerusalem to be baptized and WASH away their sins in Acts 22?

How can baptism be the antitype of the flood water (1 Peter 3:21) if baptism is not with water?

BTW, the baptism of John the Baptist was a symbol of repentance only. The water baptism performed by Jesus' disciples was a baptism into the salvific accomplishments of Jesus' death and resurrection.

God Bless,

Francisco [/quote]




This was a traditional act for the people and it`s was not a sin to continue do practise this old John the baptism ritual even though they knew it was not salvation, they knew believing in Christ was salvation and getting filled with the Holy Spirit was the main thing to do.
Ac:8:36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Why would Eunuch ask a question or permission to get water baptism if this was a commandment , or if it had any effect on his belief or had something to do with his salvation???
This would be a silly question,that you wouldn`t have to ask,you would just do with no doubt.
Even look at Philip, he mention only about belief only according to verse 37 , and it was Eunuch that asked not Philip,and if Philip thought this was so important for salvation Philip would have told Eunuch he must get baptized because Philip was a preacher or a evangelist according to verse 40 praise God.

In Ac:10:46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Ac:10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Ac:10:48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

notice again this is a question asked like in Act 8.
This is the same princible that belief is what saves in Jesus and the baptism of the Holy Ghost was that which people waited for and recieved,but the ritual of John the baptist and customs was still in thier practise,or minds.
Basically it was a tradition that people ask to do.
It`like when we close our eyes and sometimes fold our hands in prayer as a tradition ,it `s ok , but it`s not in the bible we must do these things.

In Acts 22 the water baptism was not the washing of our sins, the washing is the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins and make us righteous and just.
This is not saying Ananais is refering that we need natural water and soap to wash our sins or that water has to clean us.
The people new that Jesus is Lord and savior and believe Christ, not John baptismal.Christ is the good news, the way the truth , and the life.Plus Ananais was being obedient to Jesus by going to Saul
In verse 16 in Chapter 22 of Acts , why would Ananias say stop tarrying???

Look also what kind of man was Ananias according to verse 12.
A man of law,so what does this tell you about doing traditions water baptism,it was just for saul at that time and saul was also a man of knowing the laws.

You said: What was Paul talking about when he told the crowd at Jerusalem to be baptized and WASH away their sins in Acts 22?

What verse is this that Paul said this

In the flood did the boat go down under water??

Notice they was saved not by the water , but by the boat.
We are saved the same, but Jesus in us , and we in Him.
trusting and believing is what saves us like Noah trust God in saving him by building the boat.
It`s Jesus that saves,not the water, just like the antitype the boat saved not the water.


You said:the baptism of John the Baptist was a symbol of repentance only.

Then what did the blood of Jesus do???

What does believing the word of God does??

What does faith and trusting Christ do????

Does Jesus death need water to be accepted???

if so scripture that says that.

God bless you

[Kevin]

c.moore,

Where does it say this about the new water baptism after the cross?

Matthew 28:19-20, where Jesus was talking to His apostles (man), and commanded them to:

• Make disciples of all nations
• Baptize in the name of the Fahter, Son, and Holy Spirit
• Teach people to observe all things that Jesus had commanded them

This is what I've been trying to tell you. Jesus told MAN to baptize, not Himself! Knowing that man cannot perform Spirit baptism, there's no way it could be the "ONE" baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4:5, because Spirit baptism was never commanded of man.

After the death on the cross, Jesus told His apostles (man) to go out preaching and baptizing. This is exactly what the apostles did. The eunuch was baptized in water, after the death of the cross, after Jesus instituted His new baptism for all nations. The Gentiles were baptized with water in the name of the Lord in Acts 10:47-48.

The baptism in the name of the Lord was instituted after the death on the cross, and is certainly not John's baptism. You won't find it being practiced before His death. But it certainly uses water... or else explain the eunuch (Acts 8:37) and the Gentiles (Acts 10:47-48), both which happened after the cross.

What do you think this meant when Jesus Christ said IT IS FINISHED??

That Jesus had accomplished what He set out to do: die for us that we may live in Him.

Do you think Jesus gave us A new commandment of baptism just to see or test if we obey or not???

To test us? Of course not. Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:

• It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)
• It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)
• It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)
• It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)

That is what baptism does for us, and that is why Jesus commanded it, because we need it. Look at the list above for what baptism does for us and ask yourself if one could go to heaven without having all those things apply to him.

Do you Kevin like doing the commandment or taking the grace of God a gift of you being just and righteous Rom5:18???

I've already explained about the free gift and what that means. In fact, the verse you listed supports me. Rom. 5:18 says that the free gift came to ALL men. All men. This falls in line with what I've been saying, that God poured out His grace when He didn't have to (this of course applies to all man). He did this by sending His Son to die for all mankind, that we may have eternal life through Him. That is the free gift.

But now that we know the free gift has come to ALL men, we know that not all men will be saved. But why not? The free gift had come to "ALL MEN", right? Because, as I've been saying this entire time, there are requirements that need to be met BEFORE one can have that saving grace. If there were no requirements, then ALL men would go to heaven, because the gift came to ALL men, but we both know that's not the case (we know that ALL men WONT go to heaven). There ARE requirements, or else all would make it! And meeting those requirements is not "earning" your salvation, for we could not earn it. But God does expect us to meet those requirements! Baptism in one of those requirements (Mark 16:16).

I look at water baptism like I look at when I take my communion everyday it really bread

Then your looking at baptism in the wrong way. It was not instituted for us to remember Jesus and what He did for us, it was instituted for the reasons I listed above. Baptism is what frees us from sin, makes us alive to God, let's us walk in the newness of life (reborn), and puts us in Christ (see my above list for verses). Baptism's purpose is a far different purpose than that of the Lord's supper, which is memorialize Christ and His sacrifice for us.

Just a question was barabas watered baptized???

To my knowledge, no. It really makes no difference though because he couldn't have been baptized in the name of the Lord. He could not be baptized into a death that hadn't happened yet. Why do you bring up Barabas? This is the guy that the Jews elected to set free instead of Jesus, before the crucifixtion had even begun. Are you referring to the thief on the cross, who is an entirely different person?

The thief on the cross was forgiven because Christ had the authority to forgive sins on earth. While that's great and all, before the death on the cross, the only way that people's sins were forgiven were if they had the honor of meeting Jesus and having Him forgive their sins. What about everybody else, who didn't have this luxury of being able to come to Christ and have Him forgive their sins?

After Christ died, he made the means available by which ALL mankind can have their sins forgiven - baptism in His name (Matt 28:19-20). This is why He commanded it. I have already shown that baptism does indeed free us from sin. Jesus isn't walking around in the flesh anymore telling people that their sins are forgiven, because He has already provided a means for people to have their sins washed away: baptism.

And as I said about Barabas, the thief on the cross couldn't possibly be baptized into His death... it hadn't happened yet.

How do you know when a baptism is a spiritual water baptism, or when it is John the baptist baptism???

Because the baptism of John is not in effect. Being baptized in the name of the Lord is NOT John's baptism. You will not find anybody being baptized in the name of the Lord until after the death of the cross. When this baptism was instituted, John's baptism became void.

Do you put up a sign in front of your church and say today is water spiritual baptism, and tomorrow water wet baptism???

I've said in the past there is nothing magical about the water. When you are baptized in the name of the Lord, it uses real, wet, wet water (Acts 8:38, Acts 10:47-48). Upon being baptized in the name of the Lord, IN WATER, we recieve the gift of the HS (Acts 2:38). This gift is the literal gift of God's Spirit dwelling in us.

before I close, if you think Jesus had a new institution of water baptism then we must have two types of water baptism, and two spiritual birth Kevin

Nope. There's only one: baptism in the name of the Lord. This is what was commanded of all nations and was carried out by the apostles. This is the "ONE" baptism Paul spoke of. He practiced what he preached.

There aren't two water baptisms, because John's baptism was made void by the new one that Jesus istituted in Matt. 28:19-20.

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Agape -



Really? So when Peter called for water so that "these might be baptised, which have received the Holy Spirit, as we have", what was he talking about?

First of all, it does NOT say Peter "called" for water.

I already gave my long explanation on Acts 10 and 11 in this thread.

[c.moore]

Kevin
I have to get my tv program ready for tomorrow so I`ll be back with a deep reply on what you mention, with some deep facts that shows this is another gospel you believe.
I really can`t believe you teach this stuff you said.
But we still have people believeing the world id still flat, and 1+1=3, it is had to convinve they are decieved and have wrong information.
You are looking more like these people to me Kevin, but I know, you would say the same to me, I here this from The Jehovah Witness and mormons every week.
Please don`t get me wrong I know you are not one of those cults.
You just got some things mixed up.

Sleep good Kevin
bye

[Freak]

Kevin,

You stated:

Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:


It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)

It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)

It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)

It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)


Let's focus on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, instead of baptism.

[Evangelion]

Agape -

"Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

That's what Peter said.

[HardCoreFundy2]

Originally posted by Freak
Let's focus on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, instead of baptism.

AMEN

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Agape -

"Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

That's what Peter said.

Acts 11:15-17:
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

That's what Peter TRULY said...hence, water = spiritual water. Where's your spiritual insight?

[Evangelion]

Ummm... "Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

They had already received the Holy Spirit.

Now he calls for water.

[c.moore]

Hello Kevin

I asked :Where does it say this about the new water baptism after the cross?

You said: Matthew 28:19-20, where Jesus was talking to His apostles (man), and commanded them to:


Make disciples of all nations

Baptize in the name of the Fahter, Son, and Holy Spirit

Teach people to observe all things that Jesus had commanded them


This is what I've been trying to tell you. Jesus told MAN to baptize, not Himself! Knowing that man cannot perform Spirit baptism, there's no way it could be the "ONE" baptism spoken of in Ephesians 4:5, because Spirit baptism was never commanded of man.


Quote c.moore
You missed my question I asked to show me the NEW baptism (after) the death of Christ not the John the baptist water baptism or old baptism.
Plus there was no mention of any word new, unless I need new glasses.

In Eph 4:5 i see no where mention about water before or after in the whole chapter, unless you are one of those people who just add water to every verse mention baptism or baptized.

Kevin, you should think more on being in the presence and staying in the spirit of God rather than fear keeping all the commandments!

Just follow Jesus Spirit and the rest will be added.

Be led by the spirit !
Don`t be led by commandments.

You said:The Gentiles were baptized with water in the name of the Lord in Acts 10:47-48.

Quote c.moore
Ohhhh , so that is the new baptism that now Gentiles can get baptized.

You said: That Jesus had accomplished what He set out to do: die for us that we may live in Him.

Quote c.moore
does that mean Ro:6:22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Ro:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Ro:6:18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ro:6:8: Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Ro:6:9: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro:6:10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Ro:6:11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


You said :Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:


It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)

It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)

It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)

It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)


Quote c.moore

I thought the death of Jesus saying it is FINISHED did all that??????????????????????????

You said:But now that we know the free gift has come to ALL men, we know that not all men will be saved. But why not? The free gift had come to "ALL MEN", right? Because, as I've been saying this entire time, there are requirements that need to be met BEFORE one can have that saving grace.



Quote c.moore
Are you saying that before you recieve a christmas GIFT or a birthday GIFT or a suprise GIFT you most have requirements that need to be met before one can have the gift???????????

What is you definition of a GiFT????

When I give out free tracts on the street it is a free gift to people , and all they have to do is just take it .

Is it by you they have to qualify for the tract, or meet requirements, because if that the case I wouldn`t want to go witnessing with you, and I don`t think anyone else will want to give out tract with you, it to hard to recieve what is free can you see?????

I know you said all men would go to heaven if it was a free gift , but it is free and all men who recieve will go to heaven, it`s just that simple. the thing about this is that all men don`t what to have a relationship with Jesus, just like everybody don`t take my tracts even when I shove it in thier face.
Even if I was giving out thousand dollar bills , not everyone would take one,there is always fools, and the sinner are fools, and blinded not to take the free salvation gift, which is trust in Jesus and repentance praise God.


You said:Baptism is what frees us from sin, makes us alive to God, let's us walk in the newness of life (reborn), and puts us in Christ (see my above list for verses).


Quote c.moore

NOOOOO Kevin , Jesus is what saves us!
The Blood of Jesus is what Cleans us
The repentance is what makes us righteous and just and A saint and free us from sins ROM 6 is that newness of life , not the newness of water baptism.

The eternal life is through Jesus , not water baptism was on the cross, it is Jesus who was on the cross.

Jesus is the way , not water baptism ritual is the way.

Jesus is the truth, not water baptism is the truth ritual works

Jesus is the life only ,not water baptismal is the life we don`t live or walk all our life in a fish tank or swimming pool .



You said :There aren't two water baptisms, because John's baptism was made void by the new one that Jesus istituted in Matt. 28:19-20.


Quote c.moore

I guess Jesus must have been resurrected already when he said this in Matt 28 is this true??

I don`t see the word void, or cancelled in the verse or new.


Let God bless you

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Freak
Kevin,

You stated:

Jesus gave the commandment of baptism because baptism does the following for us:


It frees us from sin (Romans 6:6,7, Acts 2:38)

It makes us dead to sin and alive to God (Romans 6:11)

It allows us to walk in the newness of life - being reborn (Romans 6:4)

It puts us in Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)


Let's focus on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, instead of baptism.

AMEN ,LET IT BE!




God bless you and your wife

ps .check out my web site freak, and the video`s are getting ready to be down loaded on my web praise God.

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Ummm... "Who can forbid water, that these might be baptised, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have?"

They had already received the Holy Spirit. Now he called for water.

Ummm...."[b]Forasmuch then as God GAVE them the like gift as [he did] unto us, WHO BELIEVED on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

They WERE already baptized with the holy spirit and therefore he NEVER called for water. "...BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost...."

[Freak]

Keep up the good work my brother C. Moore.

Elizabeth and I were able to get the video and watch it. It looked great! Praise God! We should be able to put it up on our website too.

Be praying for us as we go to Trinidad here in a month to hold healing/deliverance/evangelistic meetings.

Bless you my brother and family in Christ our Mighty King!

[agape]

In order for one to focus on Jesus Christ as the Author and Finisher of Faith, one needs to be baptized with the holy spirit. So I don't see how one can forget about baptism, unless it's "water" baptism.

[Freak]

Agape,

The focus should be on Jesus, right?