The verse that you provided does not by any stretch of the imagination teach that anyone was baptized INTO CHRIST by submitting to the rite of water baptism.
And now,even though the verse says nothing about anyone being baptized into Christ,you accuse me of ignoring the word of Scripture when it conflicts with my ideas.I did no such thing!
Oh really??? What then was the eunuch baptized into? Look again:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Can you answer this with something other than 'this verse does not teach anyone was baptized into Christ by submitting to water baptism? It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, and it's obviously a water baptism. So please instruct us all Jerry, explain how the eunuch was not water baptized into Christ Jesus.....
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August 24th, 2002, 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Kevin
c.moore,
Francisco did a nice job of answering this:
"John the Baptist did not know Jesus was God, but referred to him as the 'lamb of God'. John also sent some of his followers to inquire of Jesus: 'Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?' So, John the Baptist was unsure of exactly who Jesus was, other than knowing Jesus might be the one prophesied of as the Christ.
"Proof"? Please. I've asked several times for you to show me a scripture that says that water baptism (baptism in the name of the Lord) is merely a symbol of outward faith for other Christians, which is the popular denominational view. Where is that scripture?
Baptism in the name of the Lord is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Baptism in the name of the Lord uses water (Acts 10:47-48). This is what baptism in the name of the Lord is for, not for the edifcation of faith for other people. You will not find that anywhere in scripture. Perhaps someday you will be able to deal with this. If people do not understand what baptism in the name of the Lord is for, then they have either been taught wrong, haven't read their Bible's, or are blinded with pride.
If I show you wher you are wrong , and this is just a symbol, will you repent of you thinking, and teachings, and ask everybody to forgive you of false teachings????
peace
www.revivaldisco.com
Proverb:3:13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Proverb:12:15: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverb:12:16: A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
Proverb:12:17: He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Evangelist c.moore
If I show you wher you are wrong , and this is just a symbol, will you repent of you thinking, and teachings, and ask everybody to forgive you of false teachings????
If you can show me in the Bible where it states that baptism in the name of the Lord is an outward symbol of faith for other Christians, then sure, I'll certainly change my tune.
I hope you aren't going to try and use Romans 6:5 where it talks about us being in the likeness of His resurrection...
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Have you realized we have been at this for nearly a year?
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Wow... didn't know that. Indeed, that's a long time for a debate on a single thread.
You obviously have not been taught that the Christian is baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You keep using the verses surroundind the eunuch to prove that he was baptized INTO Christ,but the word "into" cannot be found in any of those verses.You are ADDING to the words of Scripture in order to attempt to make your point.
Well,Francisco,anyone can ADD WORDS TO SCRIPTURE and make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Again,Francisco,there is not one instance in Scripture that states that anyone was ever water baptized into Christ.
Just because you ADD words that are not there does not make it true.I do not need to ADD WORDS to Scripture to make my point because Scriptureaffirms that the believer is indeed baptized into His Body by a BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
You see,Francisco,my idea is backed by the plain word of Scripture,but you have to add words to Scripture in order to support your idea.And that only shows your lack of respect of the Holy Scriptures as they are written.
Do you deny that the believer is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit?
Last edited by Jerry Shugart; August 24th, 2002 at 09:13 AM.
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August 24th, 2002, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
Francisco,
You obviously have not been taught that the Christian is baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
You keep using the verses surroundind the eunuch to prove that he was baptized INTO Christ,but the word "into" cannot be found in any of those verses.You are ADDING to the words of Scripture in order to attempt to make your point.
Well,Francisco,anyone can ADD WORDS TO SCRIPTURE and make Scripture say what they want it to say.
Again,Francisco,there is not one instance in Scripture that states that anyone was ever water baptized into Christ.
Just because you ADD words that are not there does not make it true.I do not need to ADD WORDS to Scripture to make my point because Scriptureaffirms that the believer is indeed baptized into His Body by a BAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
You see,Francisco,my idea is backed by the plain word of Scripture,but you have to add words to Scripture in order to support your idea.And that only shows your lack of respect of the Holy Scriptures as they are written.
Do you deny that the believer is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit?
Very well stated.
To God be the glory!
------------------------------------------------
Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Again,Francisco,there is not one instance in Scripture that states that anyone was ever water baptized into Christ.
Oh really??? What then WAS the eunuch baptized into? Look again:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, are you still saying the eunuch wasn't baptized by water into Christ?
LOL!!!
Last edited by Francisco; August 24th, 2002 at 10:12 PM.
You did not answer my question.Are believers baptized into Christ by the Spirit?
Let me give you a clue:
"For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).
Can you answer,or are you going to continue to insist that it is by a "water baptism" that the believer is baptized into Christ--even though you cannot even provide one Scripture that says that submitting to the rite of water baptism baptizes anyone "into Christ".
And no matter how many times you quote the verses concerning the eunuch,you are never going to find the words that anyone was water baptized INTO CHRIST.
Why do you continually dodge Francisco's question? Just WHO was the eunuch baptized into?
Quote:
You did not answer my question.Are believers baptized into Christ by the Spirit?
I know you addressed this to Francisco, but I'd like to comment on this as well. It depends on what you mean. If you are asking if all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit by having it fall upon them and rest on their heads as it did to the Gentiles in Acts 10:44, the answer is NO, this does not happen to all believers upon hearing and believing the gospel. The Samaritans in Acts 8:5-16 proves this.
People are led to baptism by the Spirit, the word of God. The words of the apostles are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Philip also spoke with inspirtation of the Holy Spirit. When the eunuch heard the inspired word of God, which is the Spirit, (John 16:13, Eph. 6:17), he was baptized into Jesus Christ. By one Spirit, the eunuch was baptized into Christ.
Again, if you don't think that the eunuch was baptized into Christ, despite the fact that he was preached Jesus, just who do you think he was baptized into?
The baptism spoken of in Romans 6, which is the one that puts us into Christ, is the same baptism that forgives sins. It clearly states that in Romans 6:6-7. Well, the baptism that forgives sins is baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 2:38). This of course uses WATER. Same baptism. The apostles practiced what they preached: water baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins. This same baptism puts them INTO CHRIST.
Again, the baptism that puts us INTO CHRIST is the same one that forgives sins. Where does it say that Spirit baptism forgives sins? We already know that WATER baptism in the name of the Lord forgives sins, but where's the verse that shows that Spirit baptism will do this for a person. The fact is that it doesn't,which is exactly why Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of the Lord DESPITE the fact that the Holy Spirit had already fallen upon them.
So, because Spirit baptism does NOT forgive sins, it CAN'T be the one spoken of in Romans 6, which puts us into Christ, because the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 frees us from sin (verses 6,7).
Praise be to God!
Last edited by Kevin; August 25th, 2002 at 01:02 AM.
You didn't answer MY question. Into what was the eunuch baptized after being moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, AND confessing Jesus Christ is the Son of God, just prior to going into the water?
Do you still say the eunuch wasn't baptized through water into Christ? LOL... Take another look:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
Do you require everything be spelled out explicitly like 'the eunuch went into the water to be baptized into Christ'? If so, I'll be presenting you with larger problems for your theology than water baptism.....
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August 25th, 2002, 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin
c.moore,
If you can show me in the Bible where it states that baptism in the name of the Lord is an outward symbol of faith for other Christians, then sure, I'll certainly change my tune.
I hope you aren't going to try and use Romans 6:5 where it talks about us being in the likeness of His resurrection...
That`s not fair, how did you figure one of the scriptures out??
God Bless
www.revivaldisco.com
Proverb:3:13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Proverb:12:15: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverb:12:16: A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
Proverb:12:17: He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Evangelist c.moore
Since Jerry obviously can't answer my question regarding the eunuch, maybe you can take a shot at it?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:35-38, KJV)
It's obvious the eunuch was moved to baptism through Philip's preaching Jesus to him, it's obviously a water baptism, AND the eunuch confessed Jesus Christ is the Son of God just prior to going into the water. So, was the eunuch baptized by water into Christ? If not, what was the eunuch baptized into?
..... -
August 24th, 2002, 05:57 AM
...!?
Very well stated.
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