[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by Freak
In light of this, "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. "


If it was impossible the author wouldn't have told us to do this.

Fix your eyes on Jesus not water. Can you do this?

If it was impossible the author wouldn't have told us to do this.

Then why are't you willing to listen to all that Jesus had to say. Do you deny that the apostles were comissioned to go into all the world and to make disciples through teaching and baptizing them into the body? That is what Matthew was inspired to write (see Matthew 28:18-20). Why did they go a make new disciples in that manner? Because that is how Jesus said it was to be done. You can't make new disciples without first teaching them and then baptizing them. What is the end result? Mark was inspired to tell us: "He that believeth and is baptized will be saved..." (Mark 16:16). From the first sermon until this day it is still the same. It will remain the same until the judgment day. Jesus delivered the Gospel. It is the path of salvation (Romans 1:16). The gospel says to be baptized for the remission os sins (Acts 2:38). When you believer (have faith) and follow that faith in submission and obedience to the will of the Lord you will be rewarded with spiritual blessings one of which is salvation (Heb. 5:8-9). You can't have Jesus without listening to and obeying His Law. I just can't work that way.

Fix your eyes on Jesus not water. Can you do this?

Noah was saved by water (1 Peter 3:20). The children of Israel was saved from the Eyjeptians after they crossed the water (the Red Sea), and receiving the blessings of the Promised Land came only after crossing the water (the Jordan River). Salvation and rewards only came after the water -- never before. When one fixes his eyes on Jesus he does so having received the message and obey the will of the Lord. All other situations are not benefited without entering in and crossing over the water Many years ago I crossed over the water into salvation when I obeyed the baptism for remission of sins. I now live in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:27), and will die in Him unto eternal life. All because I believed Him and fixed my eyes on his a long time ago...

JustAChristian

[Freak]

Originally posted by JustAChristian


Salvation and rewards only came after the water -- never before.

JustAChristian

You fix your eyes on Jesus as a result of water?

Who is the author of your faith?

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by Freak
You fix your eyes on Jesus as a result of water?

Who is the author of your faith?

You argue in circles, and beg the question all the time. You want provide a sustaining argument or verses for your post. I am tired of discussing this with you. May you someday come to your senses.

JustAChristian

[Freak]

Originally posted by JustAChristian
You argue in circles

I do? I believe Jesus is the author and perfecter of the faith. Do you?

[HopeofGlory]

Just,

My replies are in bold.

I will be answering HopeofGlory on his last post

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Faith is believing the Word of God and it is by grace through faith that we are saved and not of works.
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Yes, it takes faith to believe the word of God. The message of Christ accompanied by many signs and wonders were written down in order that you might believe and believing have life in His name ( John 20:30-31). You say that we are saved by grace through faith and that is true, but the grace only comes by the work on our part of believing. So, we have a work to do and that is to believe (John 6:28). We can’t get around it. We have godly works to do in order to have life. Baptism along with repentance and confession go hand and hand with believing. In fact, they are all encompassed in believing. It is a figure of speech called a “synecdoche.” That is when one word stands for the whole of anything. We could say, “It is snowing in the city!” and that covers the fact that it is snowing on Main Street, Central Ave., Broadway, Madison Ave., Washington Blvd., and all the streets and avenues. We don’t have to name wherever it is snowing, we just say “the city” and that covers it. You should be able to understand that. Check it out in the “Webster’s Unabridged.” Baptism is essential as it is a part of faith.

What is your definition of faith? If it is more than believing then I disagree. We are saved by the faith of Christ not our own.


Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the 'faith of Jesus Christ', even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal. 2:16

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the 'faith of Christ', the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phil. 3:9

The signs and wonders were to manifest Christ to unbelieving Israel for the Jews require a sign but we walk by faith not by sight.


For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1 Cor. 1:22
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1 Cor. 1:23

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Acts 2:22

I believe the gospel that Christ died for my sins therefore signs are of no use to me. Water baptism was performed to 'manifest' Christ to Israel. It was a visable sign (see John 1:31) but I walk by faith so water baptism is of no use to me. How can you condemn me even though I believe Christ died for my sins? The 'new' testament is faith in His shed blood (Matt 26:28) and it is my testimony for remission and nothing else is required.


Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25
To declare, I say, '''at this time''' his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom. 3:27

The scriptures tells us plainly that salvation is not by 'works of righteousness' regardless of what you say. Baptism therefore is by the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13) not of the flesh for 'the flesh profiteth nothing' (John 6:63) no matter what the weather.

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My purpose is to have all men see the fellowship of the mystery according to the eternal purpose. I believe that Christ died for my sins and through that faith I have received grace, it has nothing what so ever to do with water. Water baptism was for remission before the death of Christ so now eternal remission is by His shed blood. It is easily seen in old testament rituals that water prepared the priest to receive the sacrifice and when the priest applied the blood the people receive remission without water baptism. Water baptism was a priestly requirement under the law superceded by the blood of Christ. Christ was baptized under the law as our high Priest and having applied the blood for eternal remission He is seated at the right hand of God. The doctrine of Pentecost was prepratory in the sense that it prepared the way of the Lord. The Baptist's ministry was to manifest Christ to Israel but he was beheaded. The apostles completed that mission when all the nations of Israel gathered at Pentecost. Paul is called after Pentecost and receives revelations by the Spirit of Christ. Paul is the first apostles to reveal the new testament for remission and not once does Paul preach a baptism of repentance for remission. The Gospel of Christ was progessively revealed and fulfilled with Paul.
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We see a lot of “types and shadows” under the Old Testaments. As washings were preparatory to offerings and sacrifices, so baptism is essential to offerings and spiritual sacrifices under the New Testament Law of Christ. This Law was initiated at Pentecost and continues today. It is the same Law that Jesus said would be first delivered at Jerusalem then Judea and the uttermost parts of the world (Like 24:46-47; Acts 1:8; Acts 26:20). All the apostles preached the same message, beginning at Jerusalem. Paul preached the same “...first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.” (Acts 26:20 AV). So what Paul preached when he was at Jerusalem he preached at all places. There was no second message exclusively for him. You try to make it appear that since Luke was not lead by inspiration to express the same statement made by Peter on Pentecost “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins” for Paul that Paul did not have the same message. I am sure there are a lot of statements made by Peter that Paul did not make and vice versa. That proves nothing. I have shown how the same message was made by both and by all the apostles at all times. There is no dispensation of any mystery for Paul. That is Scofield doctrine found in the footnotes of many King James Version of the Bible.

Water baptism was a type under the old testament, it was preformed by the Baptist before the new testament was effectual. The 'law of Christ' has nothing to do with water baptism but rather that remission is receive through His death. Water baptism is not mentioned in any of the references you gave.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal. 6:7
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal. 6:8

You have sown to your flesh in water baptism yet everlasting life is of the Spirit.

The message of remission in the name of Jesus was first preached by the Baptist but first given to 'all nations' at Jerusalem
when 'all nations' of Israel gathered there. Try reading the bible for what it actually says not what you want it say.

Paul did not preach a baptism of repentance for remission but instead said that Christ did not send him to baptize.

I am not here to argue dispensationalism and I don't have a scofield bible.

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What is the difference and when did this change take place?
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One was commanded by God and given by the Law giver Moses and died with the death of the Law of Moses. The other was given by God through Christ and remains as a part of the gospel of salvation (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16).

Your "baptism of repentance" began with the Baptist. I want to know when the change in water baptism that you believe in occurred. Was it after the cross or before and how did the change benefit man.

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Men by their hands baptize yet the true Church is a building made without hands.
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You are comparing apples and oranges. Neither one of these statement relate to the other.
You would get a “F” in hermeneutics if you bought this statement to class. Of course, men baptize with their hands. What did you expect them to use, their feet? The spiritual house of God is made up of Christians. People who have been added to the family of God through obedience of faith (Romans 1:5; Acts 2:47).
Your 'class' is of no use to me and if it gave me an "F" it would mean nothing. It matters not what you use to water baptize with because it is of non effect.

"Spiritual in nature not visible, the circumcision of Christ is not of the flesh and so is His baptism."

When on sees the spiritual application of water baptism one sees the spiritual circumcism in putting off the “old man of sin.” Where is the old man put off? It is in water baptism for the remission of sins (Romans 6:3-6).

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom. 6:3 (KJV)

Note the contrast! It says baptized "into Jesus" as compared to "into water". How are we to get into Jesus?..."For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13) (KJV)...and it is the "one" baptism (Eph. 4:5) for us today.

Now, give me your proof text where anyone baptized in water were placed into Christ.


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This operation of God places us into His body, it does not give us power as did the gift of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost. I am glad that you believe water baptism has no power but neither does your obedience to it...
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On the contrary, I believe water baptism has a lot of power! It is the command of Christ and that says a lot to me. It is effective if I use it correctly. If I don’t obey it I will be lost eternally. Yes, that says a lot to me, and not only me by millions before me.

You believe a lie! Christ did not command 'water' baptism. It does not matter one bit want YOU DO water baptism has no power. Millions would disagree with your belief and some would even label you as a heretic.
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therefore it is by 'faith of the Son of God' displayed by His obedience to the Cross and not of ourselves.I agree that 'our faith' will not save. Man's works and his faith are both fility rags but if we believe the words that testify of Christ then His faith is ours.
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You talk in circles. You need to define your premise better.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. What true Christian ever called good works our own works? Does scripture say, it is God who worketh in us? Now your faith may be called good and saving, because it is God's gift thru Christ and not of ourselves. But now, suppose a man relied on his own faith, and another relied on his own works, they then are both carnally minded and are equally the same worthless, filthy rags. The moment a man seeks to be justified by his own obedience, that moment he falls from Christ, and ceases to have an interest in our savior. The same moment a man seeks to be saved or justified by his own faith, that moment he also falls from Christ. Our own faith and own obedience are at the same distance from God, and are works of the flesh. For the true Christian never thinks, or talks of being justified by his own obedience, any more than of being washed and saved by his own blood. It is by the supernatural WORD and SPIRIT of God that we are made righteous to a fullness of birth in Him. His obedience to the cross, His works in fulfilling the law, His faith in being raised from the dead, His love for us by giving His life. We must become a new creature in Christ who is justified by the faith and works of Christ.

That no flesh should glory in his presence. 1 Cor. 1:29 (KJV)
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1 Cor. 1:30 (KJV)
That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Cor. 1:31 (KJV)

If faith is not from Christ, or works not from Christ, then they are both worthless filthy rags. But add Christ to faith, and Christ to works, and then they are but one and the same power of God to salvation and nothing remains, but Christ in us the hope of glory.


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Christ baptizes us by His Spirit not by His flesh.
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You need to prove that someone other than the apostles and the household of Cornelius received the baptismal measure of the Holy Spirit before you can prove your case. You can’t do that, howerver.

What Cornelius and the apostles received is NOT "baptism by the Spirit". You need to prove other wise. The gift of the Holy Ghost was "power" to manifest Jesus as the Christ with miraculous signs.

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Christ did not circumcise when He walked the earth, we receive the circumcision of Christ by His Spirit and so is baptism.
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We receive the spiritual circumcism of Christ’s gospel when we put off the old man of sin. This is accomplished in baptism as Paul wrote to the Romans and I showed above.



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Paul said we are baptized by the Spirit
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Show us the verse.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13

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and having had that experience I understand the terminology.
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Show this legacy your proof. Give scripture for your thesis.

Read what I have written.

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This baptism is unseen thus no recorded account of this Spirtual operation.
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Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Roman 10:17). If it was to be known and obeyed it was revealed. Anything else is insignificant. Prove what you have said or withdraw your conclusion.

You can't obey it, it is an operation of God. Remember the "flesh profiteth nothing".

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Again, what occurred at Pentecost and the Cornelius account is not baptism by the Spirit.
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Then it is evident that you don’t understand Holy Spirit baptism (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:1-16)

It is evident you don't understand baptism by the Spirit and your references do not mention baptism.

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Yes and I believed and was baptized by His Spirit.
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You have no scriptural proof of this statement. THE Holy Spirit fell on all them (the household of Cornelius) that heard the word” But you try to make us believe that the Holy Spirit indwells before anyone is immersed. You need to review what Peter preached on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). You need to accept this verse: Eph 1:13 “...after that ye heard (unto obedience JAC) the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also AFTER that ye believed (encompassing hearing the word, believing the gospel, repenting of sins, confessing Christ publically, and being baptized for the remission of sins) ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.” Sealing comes after hearing and believing, which is the process of obeying the gospel. There is no modern day baptism with the Holy Spirit. There is no indwelling prior to obedience.

I am going to tell you one more time...the gift of the Holy Ghost was power to perform miracles and it is not baptism by the Spirit. Your conclusion is based on your confusion.

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The words of Christ are 'living water' we drink by belief and are Spiritually cleansed by His Spirit. This washing of water by the word revealed to us by His Spirit is "baptism by the Spirit".
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You pick and choose what you want to “drink.” Paul delivered all the counsel of God (Acts 20:27) and the church drunk in all in. They did not pick and choose.

Paul did not preach a baptism of repentance for remission he said that Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel.

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Your Roms 6 reference has nothing to do with water baptism and your 1Peter reference speaks of being born again by the 'word' not water. Matt 28: 18-20 is not a reference to a "baptism of repentance for remission".
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Only if you are an adherent of Scofield Bible footnote teaching.

I don't have a scofield bible.

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Obedience of the heart is believing the Spirit when the word is revealed.
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Where does the New Testament tell us that we believe the Spirit over the word? The Spirit inspired the writers and preachers to deliver the word. It is not the believers responsibility to believe the Spirit but the word.

I did not say we believe the Spirit over the word. You don't have the ability to understand much of what you read.

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Obedience of the flesh is water baptism.
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There is nothing in the New Testament that asserts this. It takes denominational ignorance to make this statement.

Try logic and there's nothing that says it isn't.

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It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
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What does Jesus say is spirit? It is His words. Therefore His words makes us alive not the Holy Spirit as you want us to believe. How does the Lord’s words make us alive? We will let Peter answer that: “Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:22-23 AV. So, we are made alive or born again when we obey from the heart the word of God which Jesus delivered.

Jesus did not deliver a new "water" baptism for remission but gave us a new testament of His shed blood for remission (Matt 26:28). I am not a dispensationalist. I believe in progressive revelation.

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by Freak
I do? I believe Jesus is the author and perfecter of the faith. Do you?

When it comes to believing what is in the Bible I am among those at the top! That is more than I can say for you.

JustAChristian
___________________________________

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(Hebrews 12:2)

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings (Hebrews 2:10)

[JustAChristian]

We are told we must be born again. The new birth makes it possible to enter heaven. We are told to believe the gospel(Mark 1:15). We are commanded to believe that Jesus is God’s Son (John 8:24). We are shown that we must publically confess that belief before man {Matthew 10:32:33; Acts 8:37). We are charged to repent of sins (Luke 13:3). Lastly, we are told to be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38}. When we listen to Jesus, in obedience of faith (Romans 1:5), and commit ourselves to following His teaching we will be born again of or by the word (1 Peter 1:22-23). We have the potential for eternal salvation (Rev. 2:10). Knowing the will of God and obeying the Gospel of salvation is doing nothing more than what Jesus expects of His disciples. It is that which prompts our being born again of the water and Spirit. Doctrines and commandments of man make this so difficult. However, it is not a great mystery. Everyone has the potential of salvation, but only those who obey the gospel, the incorruptible seed, will experience the new birth (Romans 1:16; 2 Cor. 9:13; 1 Peter 1:22-23).

JustAChristian

[Freak]

Originally posted by JustAChristian
When it comes to believing what is in the Bible I am among those at the top!

Then it all starts with and ends with Jesus-the author & finisher of our faith. He is everything in salvation that is why we must keep our eyes upon HIM not water.

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by Freak
Then it all starts with and ends with Jesus-the author & finisher of our faith. He is everything in salvation that is why we must keep our eyes upon HIM not water.

Freak,
Can't you understand that you can't have Jesus without having his teachings? Jesus plainly said, "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me AND MY WORDS, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels (Luke 9:26). Jesus expects those who would be his disciples to hear (unto obedience) His words. You are not listening!! You want "buffet gospe." You want to pick and choose. You can't have it that way!.

Furthermore, you have never (and I mean NEVER) refuted baptism for the remission. You aught to be more interested in being correct than being the greater poster of the day.

JustAChristian
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John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

[Freak]

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Freak,
Furthermore, you have never (and I mean NEVER) refuted baptism for the remission.

Let me quote the verse again:

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. "

Jesus is the author of our faith not water.

[geralduk]

Being BORNagain "...of the WATER and of the Spirit" is not BAPTISM!
For the water is the WORD of God.
"For without faith it is impossible to please God" and how does faith come?
By HEARING and by that we understand also means UNDERSTANDING the Word of God"
For to be HEARERS only but not understanding the message how can one respond?
More:"By the foolishness of preaching it has pleased God to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE what? that which is SAID.
"fOR HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE UNLESS THEY HAVE HEARD and how can they hear unless it is preached......"
Jesus when seekign to wash PETERS feet told him he was WASHED already save that his feet needed washing.
Showing that the Word had ALREADY done its part as he had recived it but it was his WALK that had more closely to be conformed.
More:
The children of ISREAL were ALREADY saved by the BLOOD but were SEPERATED from thier bondage by the waters of the red sea.
So too are we SAVED not by ANY works be they baptism or no but by GRACE and that through FAITH and that too beign a GIFT so no man can boast.
There fore as it is written without contradiction "that there is NO remission of sins without the shedding of BLOOD"
The blood of Christ APPLIED INTernally AND unseen by the HOLY SPIRIT according to the Word of God even as it was to them in shadow.
By the which we are then RECONCILED to God by the blood of His cross"
Therefore it si the BLOOD that removes sin applied INTERNALLY to the HEART.
NOT the washing of the outward body by WATER.

The LORD WAS baptised in WATER to fullfill ALL rightousness.
Paul speaks of TWO forms of RIGHTOUSNESS.
1) The RIGHTOUSNESS of the LAW.
2) The rightousness that is NOT of the LAW but comes by FAITH.
The Lord then fullfiled BOTH.
bY THE FULLFILLING OF THE LAW and showing its RIGHTOUSNESS.
and WALKING by FAITH according to the will of God and the scriptures CONFORMED His BODY to that will of God even unto DEATH by FAITH.
To the first we have NO part.
and by the OBEDIENCE of one we are set free from the curse of the law.
To the second we must conform seing that in doing so we are CONFORMING our BODIES to that which has been ALREADY wrought in our hearts and now
openly confess before men.
and the sin that was dealt with INWARDLY by the BLOOD through faith God now gives WITNESS to OPENLY by the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Not that we have EARNED that gift in any way for we are now fullfilling not the LAW of sin and death but "the LAW OF Christ" and so even as we are conformed unto His DEATH so we are by that law conformed unto His LIFE.

Therefore do we know we are saved by FAITH and by NO work of the flesh.
For cannot be denied that to be BAPTISED in WATER it isd the FLESH that si being BAPTISED?
Therefore HOW can a WORK of the flesh JUSTYFY us before God?
But if it is a WORK of the Spirit which in obedience we conform our BODIES then we are justyfied not by our work but by our faith.
For what is the work?
For is it not written that we are being BURIED with Christ?
So HOW can we be BURIED...........WITH Christ if not by FAITH!"?
and if of faith it is not of ourslevs but of God in RESPONSE to our faith in acordance with His will.
Therefore in ALL ways BAPTISM is a WORK of FAITH as after JAMES and not of PAUL.
and if of FAITH it is an OPEN witness and TESTOMANY to what God has ALREADY done and will do in us and through us.
and to which God gladly confirms. and gives witness to not only to our own spirit but to all those who have eyes and ears to see it.

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by geralduk
Being BORNagain "...of the WATER and of the Spirit" is not BAPTISM!

geralduk post an extended article that supports the denominational view on baptism. It is poorly written with many mispelled words. I am replacing his article with a better article that deals with truthful conclusions showing clearly that baptism is essential to salvation.

Though I can agree, somewhat, with that you have said, I find it impossible to conclude, as you have, one thing. You said that "water" means "word" in the formula for the new birth. Why did Jesus use the term "water" if he meant "word"? Wouldn't it have been simpler to use "water" instead of "word"? Is Jesus the author of confusion? No, I don't think he wanted us to be confused. I believe he wanted to say water. When the eunuch was going along in the chariot. Did he come upon a body of word or water? It was water. Simple wet water. What did he say? See, here is "word." No, he said, See here is water!!! The word that Philip taught him prompted him to mention the water, because Philip preached unto him Jesus. You can't preach Jesus without preaching "water" and preach it correctly. The eunuch had no reason to mention the water is it was not essential. Do you see how much trouble you create for yourself when you listen to denominational teachings instead of the Bible? Why do you want to persist on such a false doctrine? I believe you have done this to deny the essentiality of immersion (baptism) in water for the remission of sin (Acts 2:38). I further believe that you do not believe Jesus knew what he was saying, and that baptism has nothing to do with the new birth. Am I correct in my conclusions?

Allow me to give my fullest understanding on the doctrine of the new birth. From this let us see if we can come to a harmonizing deduction with respect of this most important doctrine.

Jesus taught that in order to be born again, one must be baptized saying, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" Jesus gives the two elements that help to produce the New Birth. One is water and the other is Spirit. With respect to water, Jesus is merely saying that passing through the water, following the message of the Spirit, through the word of God, places us on the other side unto salvation in the Kingdom of God. Like the Israelites, who had to cross the Red Sea and the Jordan river, before they reached a secure haven, which are both "types of water baptism" we too must be baptized in order to enter into the kingdom of Christ Jesus. Being water baptized is necessary in order to obey God (Matthew 28:19; Acts 10:48) This is what the Bible teaches on the subject.

On one occasion Jesus taught that His words were spirit and life (John 6:63). Since He made that statement, we can readily conclude that in some manner His word has the capacity to produce life. Such was Peter's understanding also (1 Peter 1:22-23). We are reborn when we do what the word says. That is how we are born again of the word. How does this happen? How much of or what part of the word will produce life? Well, I believe we can accept that whatever Jesus has taught we can not reject or deny, right? In essence, all that is taught of Jesus is for our acceptances, still with me? All that He has said will be essential unto a new life! Yes, one is born again by the word, that which is spirit and life. But you or I can't be born again unless we are willing to hear and obey the gospel; obeying it by doing what it says. Only then, I firmly believe, will there be produced "a new birth." Jesus commissioned His apostles to go forth into all the world with a universal message called the gospel of salvation (Matthew 28:18-20; Romans 1:16). Paul told the elders at Ephesus that he had shunned none of this gospel calling it all the counsel of God (Acts 20:28). Like Peter, before him, who commanded under inspiration, Cornelius to be baptized, Paul also expressed its essentiality for spiritual blessings (Acts 19:1-6). Thus, there is no spiritual blessings, such as salvation or being born again without baptism.

In the New Testament we see where Christians have undergone the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" in baptism (Titus 3:5; Acts 2:38; 1 Cor 6:11; Eph 5:26; 1 Peter 3:21). Where is salvation located? Salvation is located in Christ Jesus. The fact that salvation is located "in" Christ, and the fact that one is baptized "into" Christ is positive proof that baptism is essential to salvation. If not, why not? Baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16). We are baptized into the body, the church (1 Cor. 12:12,13; Eph. 1:22,23; Eph. 4:4; 1 Cor. 12:20,27). Baptism is associated with the new birth and regeneration (John 3:3-5; Titus 3:5).

The term regeneration is borrowed from the natural or biological realm. It means literally to be born again; thus it involves the communication of a new life. Except one be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3, KJV). The Lord adds that this is a birth of water and Spirit (John 3:5). Paul writes that God "saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). Thus when we are cleansed in the water of baptism and receive the gift of God's Holy Spirit, our new life in Christ begins (2 Cor. 5:17). There is no example of any one in the New Testament epistles receiving any spiritual blessing without first having the spiritual washing found in baptism. I believe, respectfully, that one must obey baptism in water for the remission of sins. Obedience is essential to salvation. We do not speak of works of law-keeping (Rom. 3:20) nor of works of our own righteousness (Titus 3:5). These cannot save.

Jesus is declared to be the author of eternal salvation to all that obey him (Heb. 5:9). Men must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). Always remember that saving faith is obedient faith. We would never think of demanding anything from God because we had been baptized. Rather, because of his gracious gift, we respond with loving obedience (John 14:15). To reject the command to be immersed is to demonstrate a lack of faith and love for the Savior (Acts 10:48).

JustAChristian

[Kevin]

JustAChristian,

I just wanted to comment on your posting. They are very, very good. Excellent use of logic and scripture. God bless you.

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by Kevin
JustAChristian,

I just wanted to comment on your posting. They are very, very good. Excellent use of logic and scripture. God bless you.

Kevin,
Thanks for the encouragement. Looking forward to seeing some of your new entries.

JustAChristian
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[JustAChristian]

Baptism is the point at which a person is united with Christ into His death and resurrection into "newness of life" (Rom 6:3)
There is only ONE recognized baptism. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Eph 4:5)

There is not a spiritual baptism and a water baptism. The baptism recognized is the one instituted by Christ himself, which He said was in order to "fulfill ALL righteousness" (Mt 3:15). Even though Jesus was not baptized for the remission of sins, His baptism is the pattern for the baptism that is now recognized by God; one in which God becomes well-pleased in the one being baptized(Mt 3:17), one in which the Holy Spirit is received(Mt 3:16), one in which in its very form depicts the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus(Mt 3:16: "come UP straight way out of the WATER)--our baptism is validated by the events surrounding Christ's baptism.
Baptism is the point at which a person is IN CHRIST. We are joined to the Lord at this time. "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have PUT ON Christ." (Gal 3:27)

The apostle Peter ordered for converts in Cornelius' household to be baptized. "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." (Acts 10:47-48)
The apostle Paul commended the believers at Rome for their baptism "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that FORM of doctrine which was delivered you."(Rom 6:17)

At Pentecost, in the midst of Peter's sermon, the adherents to his message were pricked in their hearts and asked Peter, "What shall we do?"--moved to repentance. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

Baptism is not a "good work", meaning that in baptism I am trying to earn my salvation. Baptism is the response of faith. Faith ALWAYS obeys--the "obedience OF FAITH" (Rom 16:26). In Mt 28:18ff, Jesus called for the baptism of all believers, and every TRUE believer seeks to do what pleases Jesus. Baptism is the working of faith in submissive response to the command of Jesus.

JustAChristian