[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Chandler

God's grace or undeserved kindness is expressed by reconciling fallen mankind back to himself by means of the ransom sacrifice and the Messianic Kingdom.

Jesus' Christ's blood effectively purchases sinful men so that they then belong to Christ and can have a relationship with God and forgiveness of sins on the basis of Jesus' name.

The shortly to come Messianic Kingdom of God will destroy all manmade political governments and authorities (Daniel 2:44) and will replace them with righteous rule by Jesus and those who go to heaven to be with him (Daniel 7:18; Revelation 20:4). The meek will inherit the earth. And the dead will be resurrected. There will be men and women living on earth under that kingdom rule. And humanity will finally be restored to a perfect sinless state. Then Satan will be allowed to launch his final attack to try to corrupt as many of mankind as he can. Those who fall prey to Satan will be destroyed with him (Revelation 20:7-10). Finally, with all challenge and opposition to God's righteous rule gone, there will at last be peace and paradise and everlasting life (Revelation 21:3-4).

But what is the grace which is already given unto all man kind?
I mean those who are born again saved christian which are son and daughter in Christ who have the right to go boldly to the throne of God because of Jesus grace??

Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph:2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph:4:7: But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph:4:8: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

I am more talking about this grave which we are saved, redeemed, pure Holy righteous before God to us, not a Messianic Kingdom.
!

The grace I am talking about is the grace by a gift given to me by Jesus as being justified now and saved now, and as Holy as Jesus is now in heaven.

Do you see the grace the bible is talking about and myself?

How does the JHW see grace, and it is given without and works, just a done deal because of God love and grace to us??

It seems likje your society don't teach the most important gospel , but claim to go door to door witnessing without telling people fist about God love and grace.

one love

one love

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by c.moore

But what is the grace which is already given unto all man kind?
I mean those who are born again saved christian which are son and daughter in Christ who have the right to go boldly to the throne of God because of Jesus grace??

Those who are born again go to heaven to become kings, priests and judges and to rule over the earth with Christ for 1,000 years. They get the first resurrection and immediately at their resurrection they receive perfection and immortality. The second death has no power over them (1 Corinthians 15:53; Revelation 20:4-6).

Those who are not born again do not go to heaven. For example, John the Baptist died before Pentecost (with the outpouring of holy spirit) and so was not born again. And Jesus said that he would not be in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 11:11). The same was true of David (Acts 2:34) and indeed, anyone who lived before Jesus descended to earth (John 3:13).

But Jesus said that the meek will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5). So those not born again would be resurrected upon earth. They would be subjects of God's kingdom, living upon earth under that rulership from heaven. Revelation 20:6 says that those who get the first resurrection will not be harmed by the second death. But that is not the case with those who are resurrected afterwards. Those who are resurrected on earth may still fall prey to Satan's attack at the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-9).

Only after Satan has finally been destroyed along with all demons and humans that side with him will we enjoy peace, paradise and everlasting life.

[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Chandler

Those who are born again go to heaven to become kings, priests and judges and to rule over the earth with Christ for 1,000 years. They get the first resurrection and immediately at their resurrection they receive perfection and immortality. The second death has no power over them (1 Corinthians 15:53; Revelation 20:4-6).

Those who are not born again do not go to heaven. For example, John the Baptist died before Pentecost (with the outpouring of holy spirit) and so was not born again. And Jesus said that he would not be in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 11:11). The same was true of David (Acts 2:34) and indeed, anyone who lived before Jesus descended to earth (John 3:13).

But Jesus said that the meek will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5). So those not born again would be resurrected upon earth. They would be subjects of God's kingdom, living upon earth under that rulership from heaven. Revelation 20:6 says that those who get the first resurrection will not be harmed by the second death. But that is not the case with those who are resurrected afterwards. Those who are resurrected on earth may still fall prey to Satan's attack at the end of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-9).

Only after Satan has finally been destroyed along with all demons and humans that side with him will we enjoy peace, paradise and everlasting life.

The grace I am talking about is the grace by a gift given to me by Jesus as being justified now and saved now, and as Holy as Jesus is now in heaven.

Do you see the grace the bible is talking about and myself?

How does the JHW see grace, and it is given without and works, just a done deal because of God love and grace to us??

It seems likje your society don't teach the most important gospel , but claim to go door to door witnessing without telling people fist about God love and grace.

we are talking pass each other amd you are not talking about grace , but other issue not pretaining the topic!

BTW have you read Hebrew about what is going to happen to this planet?

Heb:1:10: And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb:1:11: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

But that is another subject , lets talk about grace , saving grace , redemption grace!

one love

[c.moore]

I just found out that the JHW don't teach the most important message Jesus wanted all to know and paul preached and the bible taught!

Withiut this message the JHW don'T have a testimony and will have no victory when going door to door to earn salvation and get there merits!

No wonder chandler couldn't answer me, and just acted like he avoid the question instead of telling the truth, now That show you can't trust the JHW teachings for sure!

one love

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by c.moore

The grace I am talking about is the grace by a gift given to me by Jesus as being justified now and saved now, and as Holy as Jesus is now in heaven.

Do you see the grace the bible is talking about and myself?

How does the JHW see grace, and it is given without and works, just a done deal because of God love and grace to us??

We call that: having righteousness imputed to us now (despite our present imperfect state).

[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Chandler

We call that: having righteousness imputed to us now (despite our present imperfect state).

I heard that you say grace is :


undeserved kindness in JHW theology is that true?

one love

[Non-Excluvistic]

C. Moore,

What is your purpose? I have been reading some of your stuff, and it all seems to be about your beliefs being right and others needing to believe the same to have salvation guaranteed.

What guarantee do you have? I know your theology tells you to arrogantly say you are guaranteed salvation, but who has come back to tell you this is true? If you faithfully believe this, then why do you feel the need to harass others for the way they believe.

Oh, and your post, "101 things others need to see my way," was grossly arrogant.

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by c.moore

I heard that you say grace is :


undeserved kindness in JHW theology is that true?

one love

Grace we call undeserved kindness. But being justified in our present state we call having righteousness imputed. It is all related but different details.

[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Non-Excluvistic

C. Moore,

What is your purpose? I have been reading some of your stuff, and it all seems to be about your beliefs being right and others needing to believe the same to have salvation guaranteed.

What guarantee do you have? I know your theology tells you to arrogantly say you are guaranteed salvation, but who has come back to tell you this is true? If you faithfully believe this, then why do you feel the need to harass others for the way they believe.

Oh, and your post, "101 things others need to see my way," was grossly arrogant.

I have a guarantee in Christ Jesus my saviour and Lord and God who is love and grace!
he never lies and He keep His promises to me and many so it might look like my arrogant , but it is really the God in me who is better than the world god and religion god, which is built on self and manipulations and legalism!

If you don't believe in grace and the blood of Jesus a person is lost either way!

I have a gospel to share and a religion and person without a Jesus Christ who is God has only bad news and no guarantee of nothing except hell and deceptions!

one love

[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Chandler

Grace we call undeserved kindness. But being justified in our present state we call having righteousness imputed. It is all related but different details.

What details are there about grace??
A matter of fact grace and about the blood of Jesus is not even taught in your kingdom hall, because you might come to the know of truth, and free from your society final authority.

one love chandler!

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by c.moore

What details are there about grace??
A matter of fact grace and about the blood of Jesus is not even taught in your kingdom hall, because you might come to the know of truth, and free from your society final authority.

one love chandler!

Let me ask you a question for a change. What is your view of the teachings of Calvin regarding "irresistible grace"?

See:

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism_grace.htm

[Non-Excluvistic]

Originally Posted by c.moore

I have a guarantee in Christ Jesus my saviour and Lord and God who is love and grace!
he never lies and He keep His promises to me and many so it might look like my arrogant , but it is really the God in me who is better than the world god and religion god, which is built on self and manipulations and legalism!

If you don't believe in grace and the blood of Jesus a person is lost either way!

I have a gospel to share and a religion and person without a Jesus Christ who is God has only bad news and no guarantee of nothing except hell and deceptions!

one love

Well, first off, let's be realistic and rational here. No one has come back and confirmed this is true. List one person that has come back and told you it is true that your beliefs guarantee you anything, or that their is even an afterlife. Your beliefs are based on faith, just like mine, just like everyone elses--means we have no definite proof, yet we believe that this is true. I mean correct me if I'm wrong. Has any dead relative come back to tell you that your guaranteed anything? Friends, pastors come back to confirm this?

My point is, we believe the things we do based on faith alone--no proof, and often no logical explanation. So I see it as arrogant and classless to go around attacking others who you feel don't measure up to your personal opinionated view of the same doctrine.

If you believe it then fine, why not let God sort out those things we disagree on?

Explain what gives you the right and authority to be arrogant about your views?

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by Non-Excluvistic

List one person that has come back and told you it is true that your beliefs guarantee you anything, or that their is even an afterlife.

Hi Non-Exclusive.

How about Jesus? He came back from the dead as a guarantee for us.

Acts 17:31 says: "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."


We have historical evidence of this in that the early Christians were prepared to die for their faith. Many suffered terribly under persecution. They would not have acted this way if they did not have eye-witness proof of Jesus' death and resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:3-6 says: "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."

[Non-Excluvistic]

Originally Posted by Chandler

Hi Non-Exclusive.

How about Jesus? He came back from the dead as a guarantee for us.

Hello,

I asked who has come back to tell you this is true Not some writings in a book you consider sacred scripture--this goes for me too.

I'm asking who has come back and told you this--you personally.

We take the words in our books on faith--we believe it to be true without having exact proof--we will find out if it is true or not when we die--but we keep the faith and believe it till then.

You believe what the bible says--faith.

I believe what the Quran and some other teachings among other religions say, and find the teachings useful--faith.

We believe on faith Chandler, what is in our books about the afterlife has yet to become an actual truth to us. Therefore, I find it arrogant and of a self-pleasing motive to harass others about the details of their belief. Now, rational discussion is fine, but I have been reading other threads started by C. Moore, and his post, and they seem self-righteously self-pleasing.

[c.moore]

Originally Posted by Chandler

Let me ask you a question for a change. What is your view of the teachings of Calvin regarding "irresistible grace"?

See:

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism_grace.htm

The site has some half truth in it but the part saying that the elected must be saved by grace, I disagree because we are free moral agents and can chose and reject!

So now can you give me your JHW details on grace which is unmerit favor?

one love