Slogan/motto:
Still, these little wonders remain. "the LORD loved Israel for ever" :)
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June 10th, 2010, 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera
Maybe we should raise taxes so that we can clean up the mess and have more effective environmental enforcement.
Wait . . . most of the people who are mad at Obama don't want us to raise taxes.
Never mind -- I'm sure all the teapartiers can have their free oily lunch.
"Drill baby Drill!" -- Sarah Palin at the GOP Convention.
Quit using what is not before you naturally and then you, too, can be taken seriously in your rant. "Drill baby Drill!" ... yeah it sounds like something a lunatic would say .. yet I wonder what most of those complaining now of the oil spill would be saying if tomorrow "they" actually DID quit drilling. My guess is that the "campers" would STILL find something to grumble about and that too would be the fault of anyone but their ownselves.
'You can understand dependence
When you know the maker's hand' ... II Kings 19:29-31
Slogan/motto:
Hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
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June 10th, 2010, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie
I bet you would be taken more seriously in regard to your anger if you would take some responsibility and get your arse to work in helping to clean up the mess that has resulted from their attempt to bring forth what you otherwise are content in using, even in overabundance.
What do you propose?
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different expressions of the same energy,
and they are all in communication with each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.
This whole is in all its parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine
- Robinson Jeffers
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
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June 10th, 2010, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimiel
It's so important to stop this leak, and I don't see why it's taking so long. We have technology which allows for construction at this depth, and should be able to encase the well head in SOMETHING, for crying out loud, and get that something secured so that the oil ALL goes to a rig on the surface. I'm with you: I'm angry. The Brown Pelican is just one animal at a huge risk right now. There are plenty of species which can ONLY be found in the gulf. It isn't right, the games BP is playing, but this is ridiculous, what is NOT being done to clean up oil and protect our wetlands. The salt marshes are the biggest source of food for the gulf, and a big part of them are threatened. The booms aren't working. There aren't enough ships in the sea to suck up the oil, and only a very few of the vessels designed to clean up oil are currently in the gulf. As more arrive, more will be cleaned up, but I'm afraid that far more oil has already leaked out than anyone has estimated and that this oil will start showing up scattered all over the gulf and destroy more than the Exxon Valdez spill did. They're still cleaning up oil spilled by that drunk captain in Alaska. This is already FAR worse than that, and we have yet to see the far-reaching implications of the particulate oil and the dispersant chemicals (which no one outside BP knows the content of). These could have worldwide impact on all our oceans.
Agreed! The thing that I don't get is according to MSNBC, they are NOT sucking up the oil with the ships that are out there; they are using some shrimp/fishing boats and dragging nets through the oil to collect it. Who thought of that, pray tell?
And why is BP totally in charge of this problem? They have been caught lying about the extent of the problem, yet we are trusting them to solve the problem???? There's a slight conflict of interest showing here...
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
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June 10th, 2010, 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera
I'm angry that conservatives and Reaganites sabotaged Carter's attempts to set up a longterm policy to make ourselves independent of oil production -- if we had followed a progressive government backed Manhattan project in the 70s to encourage renewables, we wouldn't have had the Exxon Valdez or the BP disaster.
History didn't start yesterday.
Policy did not cause this disaster; the incompetence of BP caused this disaster.
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
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June 10th, 2010, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie
Ever hear of "supply and demand?" Know the difference between "supply and demand" and "demand and supply?"
Do you really think you are the only one emailing the White House? What is the expected result you hope for if the whole of the population of America were to email the whitehouse yet still demand what they are used to being supplied. Accidents happen when trying to please the People. HOw easy it is for us to send an email and expect "them" to clean up the mess that is resulted from what we have demanded.
I bet you would be taken more seriously in regard to your anger if you would take some responsibility and get your arse to work in helping to clean up the mess that has resulted from their attempt to bring forth what you otherwise are content in using, even in overabundance.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
You live in Texas? You drive an SUV? You use plastics? You use hospital services? You wear panty hose? You use any beauty products? You use handcreams/petroleum based products? Then baby, you are part of the problem as well.
Yes, Americans do use more fuel that other nations, but don't imagine that oil/fuel is ONLY used for the production of gasoline. There are millions of products derived from petroleum; if you use any of these, then you are a consumer just like the rest.
And do not propose to judge me when you do not know me. I drive a fuel efficient car; I researched before I purchased and bought a car with the highest fuel efficiency that was available at the time with an automatic transmission.
You want to judge? Then take it out on all the gas gobblers driving hummers, SUV's, pick-up trucks, and vans..
As to being taken seriously, helping in the clean up is a noble and good thing, but if no one in the government is directly affected by the mess, they may not respond (as they have already exhibited) with the level of care needed. It is my constitutional right to petition the government and if we do NOT make our voices heard by writing, calling, emailing, and especially voting, etc. then it is our own fault when we end up being governed by incompetent and self-seeking individuals.
Policy did not cause this disaster; the incompetence of BP caused this disaster.
We also allowed them to be in the position to cause it. They're lying weasels, but that does an injustice to weasels. There should have been better regulation. This is almost the same thing that happened in the Gulf in '79 (both accident and attempted fixes). If a driver you'd lent your car to put on a blindfold and smashed your car into a tree and you allowed him to drive your car again and they put on a blindfold and smashed into a tree again, it'd be the driver who'd caused the accident... But I'm sure you'd agree that your car-lending policy would warrant throwing some of the responsibility your direction... Especially if you didn't set up some good blindfold regulations.
Probably most folks here don't care much for Rachel Maddow (me neither), but even if that's the case, please try to set it aside; this comparison's pretty amazing.
But hopefully this will be contained much sooner than it was in '79.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Reputation:
June 10th, 2010, 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie
Quit using what is not before you naturally and then you, too, can be taken seriously in your rant. "Drill baby Drill!" ... yeah it sounds like something a lunatic would say .. yet I wonder what most of those complaining now of the oil spill would be saying if tomorrow "they" actually DID quit drilling. My guess is that the "campers" would STILL find something to grumble about and that too would be the fault of anyone but their ownselves.
Put your money where your mouth is.... you cut out the use of ALL petroleum based products...
A partial list of products made from Petroleum (144 of 6000 items)
One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum JellyTransparent Tape
CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD's & DVD's Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline
Americans consume petroleum products at a rate of three-and-a-half gallons of oil and more than
250 cubic feet of natural gas per day each! But, as shown here petroleum is not just used for fuel.
Return http://www.ranken-energy.com/Product...0Petroleum.htm
Last edited by lucy; June 10th, 2010 at 03:20 AM.
Reason: added some highlighting..
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Reputation:
June 10th, 2010, 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo22
We also allowed them to be in the position to cause it. They're lying weasels, but that does an injustice to weasels. There should have been better regulation. This is almost the same thing that happened in the Gulf in '79 (both accident and attempted fixes). If you let a driver who'd put on a blindfold and smashed your car into a tree drive your car again and they smashed into a tree again, it'd be the driver who'd caused the accident... But I'm sure you'd agree that your car-lending policy would warrant throwing some of the responsibility your direction.
Probably folks don't care much for Rachel Maddow (me neither), but if that's the case, please try to set it aside; this comparison's pretty amazing.
Yeah, I saw this; amazing how stupid the people in this business can be when blinded by greed and hubris.
I think that greed is just too overlooked and even accepted. Hubris is too. Often we admire them. I see so many people fight for the rights of these companies, as if by regulating them it's destroying freedom. I have no problem with laws designed to keep greed in check. I don't understand why that is so often such a left/right polarizer. Greed is bad news.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
They probably already have a big funnel set up that just dumps the emails out into a lake or something.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Reputation:
June 10th, 2010, 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo22
I think that greed is just too overlooked and even accepted. Hubris is too. Often we admire them. I see so many people fight for the rights of these companies, as if by regulating them it's destroying freedom. I have no problem with laws designed to keep greed in check. I don't understand why that is such a left/right polarizer.
I don't get it either. We need to be concentrating on a replacement form of energy, at least for automobiles and big guzzlers of fossil fuels. I don't see how we can totally replace oil, seeing as how so many byproducts of oil are essential to the production of thousands of other products. I think of things used in hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc. that come from petroleum products. And what about communication devices; computers, cell phones, etc. it boggles the mind as to what petroleum by products are used for...
Hi Lucy, you'd asked what I disagree with, and I figured I'd keep it in this thread because I think it's a good one.
The things I disagree with are 1) that past policy didn't contribute to this, and 2) that it's the current administration that should take the brunt of it.
However, that said, I think it's great you emailed the White House. I've done the same, and I think others should as well. And I think it's great that you're calling on folks to be involved, rather than just bickering about who's fault it is. I agree with you that the administration should have acted faster. And I don't think that they should have listened to a word that BP said... But I don't think there was much in place for them to be in a position to not listen to BP, and I think that falls mostly on past administrations. I was disappointed that Obama hadn't been stricter about offshore drilling in the first place (obviously many here would disagree with me on that).
I also agree with Gamera on a number of things he's saying, but I don't think he's trying to see where you might share a lot of similarities in what you both want. That's always frustrating for me to see.
I think that there are actually some people who don't care about things like this... But I don't think anyone in this thread so far is one of those people. For those who do care, I think it's important to find and look towards commonalities before looking to the differences. From what I can see, both of you at base feel the same about this oil spill... Among other things, that it's sad, angering, disgusting, a travesty.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston.
Now, almost seven weeks later, as the oil spewing from the battered well spreads across the Gulf and soils pristine beaches and coastline, BP and our government have reconsidered.
U.S. ships are being outfitted this week with four pairs of the skimming booms airlifted from the Netherlands and should be deployed within days. Each pair can process 5 million gallons of water a day, removing 20,000 tons of oil and sludge.
At that rate, how much more oil could have been removed from the Gulf during the past month?
The uncoordinated response to an offer of assistance has become characteristic of this disaster's response. Too often, BP and the government don't seem to know what the other is doing, and the response has seemed too slow and too confused.
Federal law has also hampered the assistance. The Jones Act, the maritime law that requires all goods be carried in U.S. waters by U.S.-flagged ships, has prevented Dutch ships with spill-fighting equipment from entering U.S. coastal areas.
“What's wrong with accepting outside help?” Visser asked. “If there's a country that's experienced with building dikes and managing water, it's the Netherlands.”
Even if, three days after the rig exploded, it seemed as if the Dutch equipment and expertise wasn't needed, wouldn't it have been better to accept it, to err on the side of having too many resources available rather than not enough?
BP has been inundated with well-intentioned cleanup suggestions, but the Dutch offer was different. It came through official channels, from a government offering to share its demonstrated expertise.
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