[Jefferson]

Donna and the Death Penalty

This is the show from Monday June 14th, 2010.

SUMMARY:

* The Hits Just Keep on coming: California seeks to pass a law preventing those who hire hit men to rub out their divorcing spouse from getting half the victims stuff. Guest host Doug McBurney has a few suggestions on how to prevent the hit!

* Firing Squad Friday: While Bob will be back this Friday for Real Science Friday with Jerry Bergman Ph.D, we all look forward to Firing Squad Friday with the Utah Dept of Corrections and Ronnie Lee Gardener!

* Time is of the Essence: Nevada authorities have rightly sentenced to death a man who butchered, (and possibly ate) his wife. But at 70 years old it’s likely he’ll die a natural death before the state gets around to executing him.

* Donna’s no Dummy: When Doug accuses people who are against the death penalty of being “stupid” Donna, a listener in Denver is offended and calls in to let him know.

Personhood is the most important human rights movement of your lifetime. Will you be one who fights to end the systematic dehumanization and murder of an entire class of citizen? Or will you stay in your comfort zone? If you live in any state in America, you can advance personhood via the 2010 ballot or in one of three different ways. If you live in Colorado join by calling or e-mailing Personhood Colorado or Colorado Right to Life.

Today’s Resource: Get what is possibly the greatest single resource available for those seeking a biblical understanding of Capital punishment; get the video God and the Death Penalty and read the article. You can enjoy one or two of Bob Enyart’s entertaining and insightful videos each month, mailed to you automatically, simply by subscribing to the BEL Monthly Topical Videos service! Also, you can check out the other great BEL subscription services!

[Granite]

Kill, kill, kill.

Yeah. We get it.

[bybee]

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Donna and the Death Penalty

This is the show from Monday June 14th, 2010.

SUMMARY:

* The Hits Just Keep on coming: California seeks to pass a law preventing those who hire hit men to rub out their divorcing spouse from getting half the victims stuff. Guest host Doug McBurney has a few suggestions on how to prevent the hit!

* Firing Squad Friday: While Bob will be back this Friday for Real Science Friday with Jerry Bergman Ph.D, we all look forward to Firing Squad Friday with the Utah Dept of Corrections and Ronnie Lee Gardener!

* Time is of the Essence: Nevada authorities have rightly sentenced to death a man who butchered, (and possibly ate) his wife. But at 70 years old it’s likely he’ll die a natural death before the state gets around to executing him.

* Donna’s no Dummy: When Doug accuses people who are against the death penalty of being “stupid” Donna, a listener in Denver is offended and calls in to let him know.

Personhood is the most important human rights movement of your lifetime. Will you be one who fights to end the systematic dehumanization and murder of an entire class of citizen? Or will you stay in your comfort zone? If you live in any state in America, you can advance personhood via the 2010 ballot or in one of three different ways. If you live in Colorado join by calling or e-mailing Personhood Colorado or Colorado Right to Life.

Today’s Resource: Get what is possibly the greatest single resource available for those seeking a biblical understanding of Capital punishment; get the video God and the Death Penalty and read the article. You can enjoy one or two of Bob Enyart’s entertaining and insightful videos each month, mailed to you automatically, simply by subscribing to the BEL Monthly Topical Videos service! Also, you can check out the other great BEL subscription services!

There is an apparent contradiction here. Either one is pro-life or one is not.
I am anti-abortion. I am anti-death penalty. I am pro our Lord Jesus who died to save us. I would not usurp God's perogative to be the judge. bybee

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by bybee

There is an apparent contradiction here. Either one is pro-life or one is not.
I am anti-abortion. I am anti-death penalty. I am pro our Lord Jesus who died to save us. I would not usurp God's perogative to be the judge. bybee

so you don't see the difference in killing an innocent baby
or
one who has led a life of crime?

[bybee]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

so you don't see the difference in killing an innocent baby
or
one who has led a life of crime?

You are annoying me!!! Of course I see the difference!
Life is God's gift and it rest's in His hands.
Most assuredly those guilty of heinous crimes must be removed as quickly as possible from society.
What give's you the right to take the life of another person?
Our laws give us the right to punish lawbreakers.
Are you willing to flip the switch on the electric chair? Are you willing to take a syringe filled with poison and inject it into the arm of another human being? Are you willing to chop off a criminal's head? Or drop the floor of the gallows?
We must protect the innocent and the vulnerable always.
But God is the judge of life.
You sit back in your easy chair and pose provocative questions. What are your answers to your provocative questions?
I need to calm down! bybee

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by bybee

You are annoying me!!! Of course I see the difference!
Life is God's gift and it rest's in His hands.
Most assuredly those guilty of heinous crimes must be removed as quickly as possible from society.
What give's you the right to take the life of another person?
Our laws give us the right to punish lawbreakers.
Are you willing to flip the switch on the electric chair? Are you willing to take a syringe filled with poison and inject it into the arm of another human being? Are you willing to chop off a criminal's head? Or drop the floor of the gallows?
We must protect the innocent and the vulnerable always.
But God is the judge of life.
You sit back in your easy chair and pose provocative questions. What are your answers to your provocative questions?
I need to calm down! bybee

maybe I misunderstood you

I thought you were saying that you could not be considered pro-life
if
you for for the death penalty

was I wrong?

[bybee]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

maybe I misunderstood you

I thought you were saying that you could not be considered pro-life
if
you for for the death penalty

was I wrong?

You were not wrong!
It is a moral truth which must apply in all cases. bybee

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by bybee

You were not wrong!
It is a moral truth which must apply in all cases. bybee

well that will upset a lot of people
so
you better get use to it

[John Ladder]

In forming and maintaining a complete BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW--which the disciple might attempt to apply to secular society--one must consider all of Scripture.

Nothing in the New Covenant diminishes the value of human life clearly established by the Father early in the Old Covenant:

Genesis 9:5-6 -- Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

Exodus 21:12 -- He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 24:17 -- If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 35:33 -- So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it.

Matthew 26:52 -- Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."

Abortion isn't punishment; rather it's cold-blooded murder. Lawful execution is a punishment for murder. We may view capital punishment as a just and commensurate punishment precisely because human life is invaluable.

Also, remember that Jesus Himself lay down His life in subjection to the Father's will through state execution.

Mark 9:31 -- "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later."

[Jefferson]

Originally Posted by bybee

Life is God's gift and it rest's in His hands.

What if He put it in our hands? See Ezekiel 13:19, Numbers 35:31, Leviticus 24:17, Exodus 21:12, Luke 23:40-41, Acts 25:11, Hebrews 10:28-29, Revelation 13:10.

Are we supposed to sin against those verses?

Yes or no?

[Rusha]

Originally Posted by bybee

You were not wrong!
It is a moral truth which must apply in all cases. bybee

I am okay with that definition as I have always referred to myself as anti-abortion rather than pro-life. IMO, pro-life should mean pro-ALL-life. I am ANTI-abortion because it ends the life of an innocent human being for the sake of convenience.

Also, I am against prolonging the life of murderers, child molesters and rapists and thus pro-death penalty.

[The Graphite]

Originally Posted by bybee

You were not wrong!
It is a moral truth which must apply in all cases. bybee

I guess God is not pro-life, then, since He commands His holy people to KILL anyone who murders the innocent (as shown in the scriptures offered by John Ladder already).

Or is it your position that God was not pro-life in the Old Testament, but He became pro-life in the New?

Or, perhaps it's your belief that God commanded His holy people to immorally kill people that they should not kill?



God isn't pro-life?

You are correct that it is in God's hands who should live or die. What you are missing is that God is capable of delegating authority in this (and other) matters. He is well within His right to do so. And clearly, according to scripture, He has done exactly that.

[bybee]

Originally Posted by The Graphite

I guess God is not pro-life, then, since He commands His holy people to KILL anyone who murders the innocent (as shown in the scriptures offered by John Ladder already).

Or is it your position that God was not pro-life in the Old Testament, but He became pro-life in the New?

Or, perhaps it's your belief that God commanded His holy people to immorally kill people that they should not kill?



God isn't pro-life?

You are correct that it is in God's hands who should live or die. What you are missing is that God is capable of delegating authority in this (and other) matters. He is well within His right to do so. And clearly, according to scripture, He has done exactly that.

I am not second guessing God. You all may well be correct in your assessmentof this issue. So, does the Law of the Old Covenant take precedence over the Salvation of Jesus Christ?
Scripture clearly states that we are to obey our lawful governors. We can take lawbreakers out of society and lock them up for life. I loath the perpetrators of heinous crime.
I will never believe that the death penalty is okay. I will never believe that abortion is okay. I respect our freedom to hold differing views.

I believe you have taken a very high-handed approach to me. You have attempted to put me into a box of your creation. It is demeaning and inaccurate.

[bybee]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

well that will upset a lot of people
so
you better get use to it

Carried to it's logical conclusion there shall only be a few human beings left alive.
You are correct. I am in the wrong place.
Support of the death penalty brings righteous christians pouring out of the woodwork.
Don't tell me what to do!

[The Graphite]

Originally Posted by bybee

I am not second guessing God. You all may well be correct in your assessmentof this issue. So, does the Law of the Old Covenant take precedence over the Salvation of Jesus Christ?
Scripture clearly states that we are to obey our lawful governors. We can take lawbreakers out of society and lock them up for life. I loath the perpetrators of heinous crime.
I will never believe that the death penalty is okay. I will never believe that abortion is okay. I respect our freedom to hold differing views.

I believe you have taken a very high-handed approach to me. You have attempted to put me into a box of your creation. It is demeaning and inaccurate.

Here's an example of your own hypocrisy.

God's holy word teaches in both the OT and NT that murderers should be executed. But, you reject that, saying you "don't want to second-guess God."

But, then you turn around and say we should lock up criminals in prisons. God does this (Hell), however NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does He delegate authority to do that to anyone on earth as a punishment for crime. Yet, you advocate that.

Why? Are you willing to second-guess God about that, but not the death penalty?

He delegates the death penalty to governments on earth to carry out. He does not delegate to anyone on earth the authority to imprison people as punishment for crime. Yet, you reject the former and advocate we do the latter. Completely backward.