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Post NON-TRINITARIAN AFFILIATION? - June 25th, 2010, 03:44 PM

I've taken part in a lot of internet discussions on quite a few theological websites, but never encountered so-called "non-trinitarian Christians" until joining TOL. The question that I have is "Who are these folks?" I've never met anyone with such views in an entire lifetime as a Christian.

My request of the non-trinitarians here is this:
Please tell us the name of the church you attend, and describe its denominational affiliation. This may help some of us to understand where you're coming from in your particular perception of the Christian faith.
Thanks in advance for your help.



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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June 25th, 2010, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
[FONT="Georgia"] I've never met anyone with such views in an entire lifetime as a Christian.
You would have really been confused in Christianity's early days then.



   
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June 25th, 2010, 03:53 PM

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Modern Christians
American Unitarian Conference started as a reply to Unitarian Universalism becoming too liberal theologically. They refrain from political endorsements and believe religion and science can improve the human condition. They do not include non-Christians and have a deist population.
Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church believe that the Father and Son are two distinct and separate beings. They hold that the Holy Spirit is the shared essence, power, characteristics, presence, and life of those two.
Christadelphians hold that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God the Father, and that Jesus was an actual human.[20] The "holy spirit" terminology in the Bible is explained as referring to God's power, or God's method of thinking[21] (depending on the context).
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose followers are popularly known as Mormons, describe God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as "three separate and distinct individuals" that nonetheless act as a single unit which is termed the Godhead. This Godhead concept began to be established during the Second Great Awakening through the teachings of Joseph Smith, based on a narrative known as the First Vision[22].
Iglesia ni Cristo views that Jesus Christ was human in nature but endowed by God with attributes not found in ordinary man, likewise, God has attributes not found in Jesus. They further contend that God wants humans to worship Jesus.[23]
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the Son of God is unique in being God's only direct creation; that God subsequently created all things through Jesus; and that Jesus remains subordinate to God. They claim that references in the Bible to Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation", "the only-begotten Son", and his claim of having a God over him, even after his resurrection and exaltation to heaven, support their nontrinitarian viewpoint[24]. They also believe that Jesus was made "God" and "Lord" only by the Father's permission and power. They teach that only the Father is the Almighty God. References to the "holy spirit" in the Bible are understood by Jehovah's Witnesses to refer to God's "active force": the means by which God accomplishes what he wills.[25]
Oneness Pentecostalism is a subset of Pentecostalism that believes God is only one person, and that he manifests himself in different ways, faces, or "modes". They believe that Jesus was "Son" only when he became flesh on earth, but was the Father prior to his being made human. They refer to the Father as the "Spirit" and the Son as the "Flesh". Oneness Pentecostals reject the Trinity doctrine as pagan and unscriptural, and hold to the Jesus' Name doctrine with respect to baptisms. Oneness Pentecostals are often referred to as "Modalists" or "Sabellians" or "Jesus Only".
Swedenborgianism holds that the Trinity exists in one person, the Lord God Jesus Christ. The Father, the being or soul of God, was born into the world and put on a body from Mary. Throughout his life, Jesus put away all human desires and tendencies until he was completely divine. After his resurrection, he influences the world through the Holy Spirit, which is his activity. Thus Jesus Christ is the one God; the Father as to his soul, the Son as to his body, and the Holy Spirit as to his activity in the world.



   
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Post June 25th, 2010, 03:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Non-Excluvistic View Post
You would have really been confused in Christianity's early days then.
Your completely unsubstantiated assertion is noted. Given that you list your religious affiliation as "Muslim," you've already provided the OP's requested information. Thank you.



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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Post June 25th, 2010, 03:59 PM

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Originally Posted by some other dude View Post
"-----"
So, then, which are you associated with? Unitarianism? Christadelphianism? Oneness Pentecostalism...?



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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June 25th, 2010, 04:04 PM

Me? Heavens no. I believe John.



   
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Post June 25th, 2010, 04:10 PM

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Originally Posted by some other dude View Post
Me? Heavens no. I believe John.
Oh, okay. Thanks.



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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June 25th, 2010, 04:14 PM

During the school year - I attend a Catholic Church :P





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June 25th, 2010, 04:15 PM

My point in posting the Wiki cut and paste was to show that there's quite a few non-trinitarian denominations out there, let alone all the lone rangers. It's not as rare a belief as I had thought before I researched it.



   
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Post June 25th, 2010, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
During the school year - I attend a Catholic Church :P
Why, since you knowingly reject one of the central and defining doctrines of the Catholic faith?



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Post June 25th, 2010, 04:20 PM

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Originally Posted by some other dude View Post
My point in posting the Wiki cut and paste was to show that there's quite a few non-trinitarian denominations out there, let alone all the lone rangers. It's not as rare a belief as I had thought before I researched it.
Yes, I'm beginning to see that. Thanks for your thoughts.



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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June 25th, 2010, 04:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
Why, since you knowingly reject one of the central and defining doctrines of the Catholic faith?



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Most churches today blindly hold the trinity as a 'central and defining' doctrine (even if they, by their own admission, don't understand it). It doesn't matter much to me, I don't consider my Christology anymore salvific than the trinity - and I've long since accepted the fact that I will never fully agree with any given church. Nor, for that matter, am I going to learn much at church - in fact on many occasions, I have taught pastors a thing or two. Just the other day I taught one the difference between LORD and Lord.

I go to church for the social aspect - to be around good Christian friends. Also, if you find a good church, it is useful for joining together in helping others and ministering to others. I also respect Catholic priests in that they, much more than most Protestant priests, go through a lot of training and learning - even if I disagree with them on various issues.





If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
   
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Post June 25th, 2010, 05:00 PM

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Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
...It doesn't matter much to me, I don't consider my Christology anymore salvific than the trinity...
So, then, whether or not one actually serves the true God or the true Christ is salvifically inconsequential, in your view...?

Quote:
Also, if you find a good church, it is useful for joining together in helping others and ministering to others.
Perpetuating a false God and a false Christ is "helpful" and "ministers to others"?

Quote:
I also respect Catholic priests in that they, much more than most Protestant priests, go through a lot of training and learning - even if I disagree with them on various issues.
On the basis of what authority do you disagree with them?
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/200...ive-authority/


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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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June 25th, 2010, 06:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
I've taken part in a lot of internet discussions on quite a few theological websites, but never encountered so-called "non-trinitarian Christians" until joining TOL. The question that I have is "Who are these folks?" I've never met anyone with such views in an entire lifetime as a Christian.

My request of the non-trinitarians here is this:
Please tell us the name of the church you attend, and describe its denominational affiliation. This may help some of us to understand where you're coming from in your particular perception of the Christian faith.
Thanks in advance for your help.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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I haven't had my own church for over three years now. I'm non-denominationalist, and will only call a church my own if I think it doesn't teach major error. Hopefully I can find one where I sense the Holy Spirit at work, but I haven't found one at my current location. My girlfriend is WELS Lutheran and I attend her church with her from time to time, but I think they teach major error in a few areas. Sort of like csuguy, I think church is a good place for Christian fellowship and growth, but not any sort of sacramental practice that will condemn a person for missing.

I attended a Methodist church before being saved (at my mother's prodding), but came out a little bit before that, because even then I could see the errors in their teachings.





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But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
   
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June 25th, 2010, 08:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
So, then, whether or not one actually serves the true God or the true Christ is salvifically inconsequential, in your view...?
It is important to serve the true God and to do so in truth (which is why I study things for myself and don't depend on others to hand it to me), but not all details concerning God are salvific.


Quote:
Perpetuating a false God and a false Christ is "helpful" and "ministers to others"?
Preferably, the church you send someone to is in full agreement with you. However, unless you are just another normal lay person who doesn't study beyond their church doctrine - you'll find that you probably don't agree with any given church completely. So, you find as good a church as you can and send them there - and hopefully you are able to continue working with them to help them get beyond the "milk" so that they can stand on their own two feet.

Also, The Trinity, Modalism, and Arianism all point to the same God (the Father) and the same Son (Jesus Christ). It is merely the relation between these two (and the HS) that is in question.

Quote:
[FONT="Georgia"]On the basis of what authority do you disagree with them?
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/200...ive-authority/
Scripture, History, Logic, and Prayer.





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