ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
I do not agree that he days, evenings and mornings should be considered as anything other than normal days, evenings and mornings.
It's the lack of a convincing alternative that is the best reason for me to do so.
You are not alone. Have you ever considered the spiritual meaning of the bible or is it all literal to you? If The Creator wanted to tell us about Himself and instruct people about what is required in this life, why a history book?
If He wanted to write a history book, why the history of one bloodline? Why not the history of the whole world?
Make A Difference Day Award Winner - Outstanding National Project - 2000
You are not alone. Have you ever considered the spiritual meaning of the bible or is it all literal to you?
Uh ... what?
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If The Creator wanted to tell us about Himself and instruct people about what is required in this life, why a history book?
What better way to understand God than to read about how He has dealt with people?
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If He wanted to write a history book, why the history of one bloodline? Why not the history of the whole world?
A story needs to be focussed. Good authors don't need to include every possible detail. Just enough of the important ones so that the message gets across.
NOTE: When I said "Why should I share it?" I meant "Why should I agree with it?"
You have an opinion I don't agree with. Are you going to defend your opinion?
No, I don't need to.
I haven't noticed you posting scripture so I don't know how familiar with it you are. None of these matters is simple, everything is connected to everything else. I wouldn't know where to start.
If you believe in a literal only meaning, that's fine, at least you believe something. If that's the case we do not need to discuss anything.
I'm headed out the door, on my way to attend a funereal tomorrow so don't expect a further reply until sometime Thursday afternoon.
Have fun.
Make A Difference Day Award Winner - Outstanding National Project - 2000
There was evening and morning so there had to be visible light.
I've read a little bit that might be the beginnings of a workable cosmology, but I've too many questions to try and explain it.
Day 1:
Night = The Void
Day = Big Bang
Day 2:
Night = Initial cooling eventually leading to CMBR
Day = Formation of stars due to gravity, which cooks the heavier elements and separates them from the lighter elements
Day 3:
Night = Death of solar system's parent star via a supernova
Day = Formation of sun and planets of our solar system out of the residue of the supernova, and eventual emergence of continents and vegetation on earth
Day 4:
Night = Capture of the moon by the earth; emergence of 24-hour diurnal cycle (greater and lesser lights) due to the angular momentum of the earth-moon system
Day= Formation of oxygen-supplying atmosphere on earth and of ozone layer, which filters UV light allowing life on the surface (some scientists say this also coincides with the development of the eye as a biological organ in primitive life forms)
Day 5:
Night = formation of higher life forms in the sea (where light is less prevalent) and large reptiles ("taninim gedolim" often translated as great sea monsters, but could also refer to dinosaurs)
Day = formation of birds, which fly in the light-filled sky (interestingly after the dinosaurs)
Day 6:
Night = absence of reason in creatures before man
Day = formation of rational beings in humans
Also, according to the famous author and MIT Jewish physicist Gerald Schroeder, applying relativity theory results in the conclusion that in the reference frame of the original Big Bang, creation took 6 days, even though in our human reference frame it took billions of years.
I haven't noticed you posting scripture so I don't know how familiar with it you are.
I tend to credit people with understanding the basics. That's what I know.
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None of these matters is simple, everything is connected to everything else. I wouldn't know where to start.
I like to start with this: The bible clearly, unambiguously and repeatedly says, "Six days" in reference to creation. Do you reject the idea that the world and all that is in it was created in six days?
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If you believe in a literal only meaning, that's fine, at least you believe something.
There is no conflict between a spiritual and a literal reading of the bible.
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If that's the case we do not need to discuss anything.
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I'm headed out the door, on my way to attend a funereal tomorrow so don't expect a further reply until sometime Thursday afternoon. Have fun.
Day 1:Night = The VoidDay = Big BangDay 2:Night = Initial cooling eventually leading to CMBRDay = Formation of stars due to gravity, which cooks the heavier elements and separates them from the lighter elementsDay 3:Night = Death of solar system's parent star via a supernovaDay = Formation of sun and planets of our solar system out of the residue of the supernova, and eventual emergence of continents and vegetation on earthDay 4:Night = Capture of the moon by the earth; emergence of 24-hour diurnal cycle (greater and lesser lights) due to the angular momentum of the earth-moon systemDay= Formation of oxygen-supplying atmosphere on earth and of ozone layer, which filters UV light allowing life on the surface (some scientists say this also coincides with the development of the eye as a biological organ in primitive life forms)Day 5:Night = formation of higher life forms in the sea (where light is less prevalent) and large reptiles ("taninim gedolim" often translated as great sea monsters, but could also refer to dinosaurs)Day = formation of birds, which fly in the light-filled sky (interestingly after the dinosaurs)Day 6:Night = absence of reason in creatures before manDay = formation of rational beings in humansAlso, according to the famous author and MIT Jewish physicist Gerald Schroeder, applying relativity theory results in the conclusion that in the reference frame of the original Big Bang, creation took 6 days, even though in our human reference frame it took billions of years.
Sorry, mate. I'm just not interested in trying to reconcile man's ideas with what God has clearly stated. To be fair this is one of the more complete attempts I've seen at trying to align Genesis with modern ideas, but for all the effort it's still not at all convincing.
Isaiah 44:
23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 48:
5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.
6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 49:3 KJV
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
I was "in the dark," so to speak, of the expanding universe (perhaps having heard, but not having remembered) and much more in fact, until a very strange time in my life when I perceived the same to be happening to my own mind ... I was in a state of heightened awareness .. and these are the passages, that soon after reading of the discoveries being made, I "stumbled" upon (to some perhaps by chance, or randomness .. but to me, I know I was being blessed with a Divine experience that has changed me in ways that I did not even ever think to dream of) ... I was forever placed in love with Israel, the People, for thankfulness to confirm that I was not crazy (or at least, if I am crazy, I am comforted to be in good company ) for having connected to my Creator through this, His creation.
mmmmm....more to digest and ponder.
The priest of those times had such an insight to the spiritual aspect of His creation.
There must be something to be said for inhaling incense and swinging a dead chicken over the congregation.
The Infinite One can never lose a grip on anything, since all is originated, sustained and contained within the One since nothing can exist outside of IT. The movement or expansion of Creation is 'God' at play. - the evolving universe is the 'sport' or 'lila' of God,....God in activity, expressing, experiencing, adventuring.
In the mighty Om,......
pj
Back to Him holding things together on an atomic level.......we at least know how much energy it takes to split one of those puppies.....
A lot of speed and energy, but not impossible.
Slogan/motto:
Daniel 2:35 NKJV "And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."
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July 22nd, 2010, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardofOz
Some very good responses so far. How is it not obvious that what is being described is not anything like a "day" as we refer to the English word?
I have always felt that there are deeper meanings/representations being described here, yet these passages are the "genesis" for literal interpretation and YEC. If the six "days" have nothing to do with 24-hour cycles why would one come to believe that this is some measurable time-table?
How can anyone who thinks so reconcile this belief with the description of events?
If you were standing on the surface of Venus you would see only darkness. Venus has an opaque atmosphere and the same must have been true of Earth in the beginning.
The sun, moon and stars already existed when God "created the heavens and the Earth". But light could not reach the Earth's surface until removal of obscuring gases, dust and debris allowed it to filter through at God's command: "Let there be light."
Evidently this was a gradual process that was not completed until day four by which time the sun, moon and stars could clearly be seen in the sky. This is what Genesis means when it says that God made the sun moon and stars on day four. He didn't create them on day four since they were already in existence. But the account says that he made them, in the sense that he made them serve as lights in the sky as illumination for our planet.
Back to Him holding things together on an atomic level.......we at least know how much energy it takes to split one of those puppies.....
A lot of speed and energy, but not impossible.
keep shinin
jerm
Contemplating 'God' as 'Light' is considering fundamentally the quintessential 'thing' that all is created from or composed of, since all is formed out of the essence of light.
One of the key aspects of creation is separation. Separation of light from darkness, dry land from sea, etc.
There are two reasons for this: one is obvious, namely that you want to keep the bad things at bay and have the freedom to enjoy the good things. But there is another meaning - that meaning itself is borne out of separation. Because when everything is grey, there is nothing to do and nothing to say. When all is in chaos, no order can come about from it. When all is grey, no words can be made to distinguish white from black or blue from gold. Thought itself is impossible. There can be no objects to be distinguished from other objects and no times to be distinguished from other times.
Creation by separation is thus much more than an act of raw power. Indeed, the emphasis in Genesis 1 is not on that kind of act at all. Separation brings with it the ability to distinguish one thing from another, for order to arise and for thought to begin. Such a work is the work not of a potentate but of an artist, an intelligence. To make something out of nothing is not therefore an act of magical or supernatural power but an act of will to create opposite things from nothing - matter and anti-matter, light and darkness and so to create meaning and thus life.
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
Back to Him holding things together on an atomic level.......we at least know how much energy it takes to split one of those puppies.....
A lot of speed and energy, but not impossible.
keep shinin
jerm
Contemplating 'God' as 'Light' is considering fundamentally the quintessential 'thing' that all is created from or composed of, since all is formed out of the essence of light.
pj
I have never contemplated God as light, light being a creation and God, well God being God, just no scriptural basis for it.
However, when an energy is present before our corporal eyes we will perceive it as what we can relate it to, in many of these cases where "angels" where present "light" was visible.
A being that can make an non-element like light with no mass but much energy surely is more powerful than light itself and equally as mysterious.
All is light............. -
July 22nd, 2010, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremysdemo
I have never contemplated God as light, light being a creation and God, well God being God, just no scriptural basis for it.
Hi jerm,
Funny how I see 'God' essentially as 'Light'
As far as 'scripture' saying anything about it, consider John's testimony that Jesus taught this very thing as fundamental -
"This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth."
- 1 John 1:5
When we consider God's essential nature....there is the pure essence of Spirit, Soul, Energy, Consciousness. 'Light' is the original radiance from which all derives any existence, value or meaning...being 'cognition' (knowlege)...the mother of all revelation. In this context, we refer to 'God' as the 'Mother-Light'. - for She gives birth to all form and matterial creation (world of appearances, 'maya' ).
'God' is both 'Father' and 'Mother' in a relative sense.
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However, when an energy is present before our corporal eyes we will perceive it as what we can relate it to, in many of these cases where "angels" where present "light" was visible.
Yes, our corporeal eyes however can only pick up what is within the visible spectrum of light, from the lowest/dense vibration of 'red' to the highest-frequency wave of 'violet'. (the 7 colours of the rainbow). However, the primal energy of divine Spirit which indwells us is not always visible..obviously...but is intuited within by our spiritual-senses and psychic faculties.
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A being that can make an non-element like light with no mass but much energy surely is more powerful than light itself and equally as mysterious.
keep shinin
jerm
'God' is 'Light'. - this is the message John heard from Jesus! - understanding what 'light' is, its metaphysical nature.
John seems to be talking about spiritual light (eg holy in contrast to darkness/evil) not to be confused with matter or elements therin, since these are physical properties of His creation.
All is light............. -
July 22nd, 2010, 09:46 PM
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