[Glenda]

Originally Posted by WizardofOz

Genesis 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

What is the light?

Salvation is of the Jews. The light created on that first day is referred to in Judaism as the primordial light and has to do with Messiah.

Jewish Jesus answers your question:
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

God is light and produces light:
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Originally Posted by unknown

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. And God said:'Let there be light.' And there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

What does it mean: “and God divided the light from the darkness”?

Jn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus answers the question about light and darkness being separate:
Jn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

[freelight]

Originally Posted by jeremysdemo

John seems to be talking about spiritual light (eg holy in contrast to darkness/evil) not to be confused with matter or elements therin, since these are physical properties of His creation.

keep shinin

jerm

Where did matter, energy, atoms, the elements, electrons, aether...originate? What is the substance of creation?...of all that exists?...and what power upholds, sustains, governs the activity of All That Is? The matterial world we 'perceive' is of course the 'vesture' of 'energy' in form, or 'light in-form-ation'. We can say the Universe is the body of God, the invisible manifesting as visible. All is formed out of the Spirit or Consciousness of God, the primordial MIND of the Universal Father.

'God' is the sole Life and Consciousness thru-out all.

While some would make a distinct seperation of the Creator from his matterial creation( a duality), it is thru the 'apparent' universe that 'God' is revealed. Creation cannot exist apart from Creator, who pervades and upholds that creative expression from beginning to end.

Back to the fundamental of Existence. God is Light. - all 'else' derives from and is 'related' within that Universal Light.



pj

[noguru]

Understanding.

[Stripe]

Why do the mystics always congregate when science struggles for an answer...

[freelight]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Why do the mystics always congregate when science struggles for an answer...

Because mystics tap into the universal substratum of the subjective 'knowledge' and 'experience' of reality behind the phenomena of the matterial world. - this is why the experience of the mystic is essentially universally the same experience of Oneness, among the various religious traditions,...since 'God' is One. There is One Ultimate, Universal, Omnipresent Reality behind all appearances.

Both spiritual and conventional 'science'(knowledge) is essential in comprehending the Totality of All That Is....since 'subjectivity' and 'objectivity' are two sides of the same coin.



pj

[Stripe]

Why do the mystics always congregate when science struggles for an answer...

Because if science says, "I don't know" they know they cannot be shown up as a bunch of loonies.

[freelight]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Because if science says, "I don't know" they know they cannot be shown up as a bunch of loonies.

Come on stripe,...we can do better I decided to read your post and take you off Ignore to see if a 'creative dialogue' could ensue....I know its a risky venture

As far as what conventional science assumes as 'not knowing', this depends on what the subject or object is, eh? As far as a true 'unknowable' existing.....yes...I accept this,....as 'agnosis'. While naturally most mystics are 'gnostic spiritualists' who have some 'experiential knowledge' of 'God'...gnostics also recognize the 'Unknowable Father', that 'God' in his highest most ultimate reality is 'unknowable'. Sounds like a paradox eh,...but this is the base of all true religious experience, one of both 'faith' and 'gnosis' at the most interior level of being. What is 'God' or 'Truth' but a radical subjectivity?

A part of 'gnosis' is accepting 'agnosis' as well....knowing that some things are 'unknowable' or 'unknown', at least from our finite viewpoint. On this level, I'm quite comfortable as both a 'gnostic' and an 'agnostic'....but these are just labels for different perspectives.

One must admit, 'faith in God' may be considered 'loony' by some atheists, and surely a 'gnostic' who has some 'knowing' of 'God' might be a stranger bird, since an atheist has no such experience, at least that he is consciously aware of within a religious context.


loon.jpg


pj

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by freelight

Come on stripe,...we can do better : ) I decided to read your post and take you off Ignore to see if a 'creative dialogue' could ensue....I know its a risky venture ; ) As far as what conventional science assumes as 'not knowing', this depends on what the subject or object is, eh? As far as a true 'unknowable' existing.....yes...I accept this,....as 'agnosis'. While naturally most mystics are 'gnostic spiritualists' who have [Isome [/i] 'experiential knowledge' of 'God'...gnostics also recognize the 'Unknowable Father', that 'God' in his highest most ultimate reality is 'unknowable'. Sounds like a paradox eh,...but this is the base of all true religious experience, one of both 'faith' and 'gnosis' at the most interior level of being. What is 'God' or 'Truth' but a radical subjectivity? A part of 'gnosis' is accepting 'agnosis' as well....knowing that some things are 'unknowable' or 'unknown', []at least from our finite viewpoint[/i]. On this level, I'm quite comfortable as both a 'gnostic' and an 'agnostic'....but these are just labels for different []perspectives[/i]. One must admit, 'faith in God' may be considered '[]loony[/b]' by some atheists, and surely a 'gnostic' who has some 'knowing' of 'God' might be a stranger bird, since an atheist has no such experience, []at least that he is consciously aware of within a religious context[/i].A TTACH]1573 4[/ATTACH]COL OR="DarkOr chid"]pj[/ COLOR]

We could have a civil dialogue if I could understand anything you ever say. How about you take the most important point from this and present it as a declaration I can either agree or disagree with. Something relevant and worthy like, "It is impossible for there to be light on earth before the sun was made."

[noguru]

Originally Posted by Stripe

We could have a civil dialogue if I could understand anything you ever say. How about you take the most important point from this and present it as a declaration I can either agree or disagree with. Something relevant and worthy like, "It is impossible for there to be light on earth before the sun was made."

It sounds like you have a bit of John Locke and David Hume's philosophy in you Strtipe. Their claim was that any statement about the supernatural was inherintly meaningless, because we cannot know anything about the supernatural.

[noguru]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Because if science says, "I don't know" they know they cannot be shown up as a bunch of loonies.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by noguru

It sounds like you have a bit of John Locke and David Hume's philosophy in you Strtipe. Their claim was that any statement about the supernatural was inherintly meaningless, because we cannot know anything about the supernatural.

Not really. It's just that I know nothing you lot say about the spiritual will ever be anything I can understand.

[noguru]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Not really. It's just that I know nothing you lot say about the spiritual will ever be anything I can understand.

So you don't believe in the spiritual? And I will ask you respectfully to not put me in the same generic bucket that you put Freelight. Although, I understand his comments (for the most part) I do not always agree with them.

I have two more questions:

How can you disagree with something you do not understand?

How is your concept of spirituality anymore understandable than mine or Freelight's?

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by noguru

So you don't believe in the spiritual?

And I will ask you respectfully to not put me in the same generic bucket that you put Freelight.

With pleasure!

Although, I understand his comments (for the most part) I do not always agree with them.

I do neither. We need a :Scroll: smiley.

How can you disagree with something you do not understand?

The truth is easily presented in a manner all can understand.

How is your concept of spirituality anymore understandable than mine or Freelight's?

I don't think I can answer that. I'd have to share what I think and let you see for yourself.

[noguru]

Originally Posted by Stripe

The truth is easily presented in a manner all can understand.

That is (pardon the pun) easier said than done. Because we all have a different set of education and experience. Although there are some commonalities that can be relied upon, some people are more versed than others in certain areas. What you are referring to here is what we normally call "common sense". But "common sense" is only in areas that we have in common or with abstract logic that can be removed from its concrete application and be applied to another area or discipline.

Originally Posted by Stripe

I don't think I can answer that. I'd have to share what I think and let you see for yourself.

Right.

[Zeke]

Type, shadows, patterns, figurative, similitudes in the temporal creation reflect the image of the eternal.

The elements of researchable light is just a type, and not the unsearchable light that God dwells in.