[WizardofOz]

Originally Posted by Knight

Liberals have ruined this country.

That's a fact.

Originally Posted by Ps82

All that is needed to win back our country is to kick out all liberals in any branch of government.

I consider myself a libertarian. I have always leaned toward "liberal" but in a classic sense of the word; not democrat or any other pseudo liberal-associated label. Ron Paul is the first Republican I have ever supported, even if his GOP status is tenuous as best.

In trying to understand the indignation many have toward everything "liberal" I pose the OP question to anyone who feels liberals have ruined the United States.

How so?

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by WizardofOz

I consider myself a libertarian. I have always leaned toward "liberal" but in a classic sense of the word; not democrat or any other pseudo liberal-associated label. Ron Paul is the first Republican I have ever supported, even if his GOP status is tenuous as best.

In trying to understand the indignation many have toward everything "liberal" I pose the OP question to anyone who feels liberals have ruined the United States.

How so?

The scope of the question is too vast for an easy answer. One area is in the quality of public education, or what passes for education these days. Political correctness run amok. Government intrusiveness. Judicial activism. Regulatory tyranny. To name a few. If you wanted to focus on one particular category, it would be easier.

[WizardofOz]

Thank you for the reply

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

The scope of the question is too vast for an easy answer. One area is in the quality of public education,

How has liberalism degraded the quality of public education?

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Government intrusiveness.

Like Knight, you must consider George W Bush a liberal. The government became the most intrusive under his watch; patriot act, warrantless wiretaps, etc.

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Judicial activism.

In any specific ruling?

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Regulatory tyranny.

Regulation of what?

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

To name a few. If you wanted to focus on one particular category, it would be easier.

If you don't want to touch on them all, feel free to pick one.

[Granite]

Yes, the liberals all ruined America. Single-handedly.

Kill them all.

[WizardofOz]

Originally Posted by Granite

Yes, the liberals all ruined America. Single-handedly.

Kill them all.

Come on!

We don't actually decide who to kill until page 3

Wait for it........wait for it.......

[OMEGA]

We in Canada have more of a Concervative Greed in our stock market.

I guess that is why we are not going down the drain as fast as the USA.

It is another sign that we are in the last days.

Le 26:19 And I will break the pride of your power;

and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
======================================

[Granite]

There are only two kinds of people in this world: conservatives, who love America and babies; and liberals, who hate your mother, the flag, America, and who beat seals to death for breakfast.

This is true no matter where you live or what you think or how you live.

End of discussion. And if you dispute this, you're obviously a liberal.

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by WizardofOz

How has liberalism degraded the quality of public education?

An ignorant populace is easily deceived, and easily manipulated.
However, I'm not going to be able to give the discussion the time it deserves.
I'll have to get back to you.

[PlastikBuddha]

Originally Posted by Granite

There are only two kinds of people in this world: conservatives, who love America and babies; and liberals, who hate your mother, the flag, America, and who beat seals to death for breakfast.

I actually prefer that the government pay gay illegal immigrants to beat my seals to death for me. I'm too busy aborting babies and worshipping Obama to squeeze it in.

[Nick_A]

The conservative believes in self government while the liberal knows the people are too stupid for it and even unworthy of the information necessary to cast an educated vote so desires a ruling elite in Washington to tell them what to do.

“It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government." This idea that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power, is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves. (October 27, 1964)” Ronald Reagan

[MrRadish]

Even more aggravating than professed conservatives blaming all the world's ills on liberals, or vice-versa, is the pervasive, simplistic, primarily American-led (sorry) idea that the only political positions are 'liberal' and 'conservative', sometimes with 'moderate' and 'libertarian' thrown in for good measure. Liberalism, in any meaningful sense of the word, is just one primarily left-wing ideology among a great many. Conservatism in a literal sense is barely an ideology at all. To imply that liberalism vs conservatism is a dichotomy does nobody any favours, and basically results in the ridiculous tribal, 'team' mentality that's come to characterise so much of modern politics.

I, for example, consider myself to be very left-wing, but disagree with a lot of the elements of classical liberalism. In most ways I'm a lot more of a socialist than I am a liberal. Likewise, the right has neoconservatives, pragmatists, economic libertarians, paleoconservatives of all different flavours, and more. To lump the entire Left into the category of 'liberal' and the Right into that of 'conservative' is to do both a grave disservice.

And don't even get me started on the terms 'Left' and 'Right'...

[Tyrathca]

Originally Posted by MrRadish

Even more aggravating than professed conservatives blaming all the world's ills on liberals, or vice-versa, is the pervasive, simplistic, primarily American-led (sorry) idea that the only political positions are 'liberal' and 'conservative', sometimes with 'moderate' and 'libertarian' thrown in for good measure. Liberalism, in any meaningful sense of the word, is just one primarily left-wing ideology among a great many.

What makes this even worse is that when Americans say liberal they are generally meaning a very specific type of liberalism (social liberalism) rather than liberalism as a whole.

[PlastikBuddha]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

The conservative believes in self government while the liberal knows the people are too stupid for it and even unworthy of the information necessary to cast an educated vote so desires a ruling elite in Washington to tell them what to do.

You just write any blibber-blabber that pops into your head into your head, don't you?

“It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government." This idea that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power, is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves. (October 27, 1964)” Ronald Reagan

I think you need to read the definition of liberalism. It has nothing to do with an intellectual elite controlling the unwashed masses or any great beasts or whatever else your neighbor's dog talks about.

Nick A, Don Quixote of the intewebs...

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by PlastikBuddha

You just write any blibber-blabber that pops into your head into your head, don't you?

I think you need to read the definition of liberalism. It has nothing to do with an intellectual elite controlling the unwashed masses or any great beasts or whatever else your neighbor's dog talks about.

Nick A, Don Quixote of the intewebs...

There are definitions and there are practical realities. For example, here is a typical definition of liberalism:

A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.

It sounds good. However, experience shows that natural goodness of man is just wishful thinking. In reality we are motivated by "prestige." "Natural goodness" is sacrificed to the acquired drive for prestige.

It speaks of political and civil liberties but what of the obligations necessary for these rights? Government by law means being directed towards a transient goal rather than the ideal of equality under the law based on the idea that all men are created equal under the law.

Years back it dawned on me that a lot of liberals were right but for the wrong reasons while a lot of conservatives were right but for the wrong reasons. But the bottom line for me is that it is only through the conservative ideals that support the principles America was founded upon that a mindset can be established that ensures the benefits of equality under the law.

Liberalism is willing to sacrifice the principles upon which America was founded upon and that benefit all for the sake of a perceived transient good. That is its harm though often well intentioned of modern liberalism. It requiress more and more government in the misguided attempt to reach the goal.

When Judas saw that Mary sacrificed the nard by pouring it on Jesus" head rather than selling it, he became horrified and able to turn Jesus in,. This is the classic liberal position. After losing the perspective of the big picture, Judas was drawn to acquiring prestige through righteous indignation and turning towards a transient goal.

The goal of the spiritual political thinker is to be able to juggle the law that sustains the good and the good that is the aim of the law: justice and mercy.

But how many political figures understand the possibility much less being capable of it? Surely not the "elite" of modern liberalism.

[Freethinker93]

Liberals have ruined America the same way Republicans have. Putting their own personal interests ahead of the people. Something has been lost in translation in recent American history. I think the people have forgotten that you're not meant to vote for a political party, you're meant to vote for who you feel will represent you and make your voice heard. Politicians nowadays don't give a damn about what the people want. They're all too obsessed with their own personal gain and greed. They just lie to the people to get elected, and once they are, they just do whatever the hell they want.

Liberals havent ruined America, Conservatives havent ruined America, politicians have ruined America.