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Cain and Abel were born in the Garden before the fall - August 26th, 2010, 06:52 PM

I believe Cain and Abel were born in the garden before the fall for many reasons but most particularly because of the curse God laid on Eve that childbirth would be painful. She would have no basis for comparison if she had not already brought forth children in a painless childbirth.
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August 26th, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee View Post
I believe Cain and Abel were born in the garden before the fall for many reasons but most particularly because of the curse God laid on Eve that childbirth would be painful. She would have no basis for comparison if she had not already brought forth children in a painless childbirth.
bybee

Adam and Eve did not know each other sexually until after the fall.

Genesis 4:1





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August 26th, 2010, 07:23 PM

* Cain was the result of the sin (Eve had sex with a mortal that she found "pleasing to the eye"). The earth was already populated when A&E arrived on their ordained mission of mercy and reformation. The world had already fallen, the beast was already evil and on the earth. The beast convinced Eve that her superior biological contribution would help the fallen state of the worlds races.

* The so called "curse" was in actuallity a biological change that occured within the new bloodlines that were the offspring of Eve then Adam as well. Among the races of Sub Saharan Africa they don't experience anything like the pain of childbirth that the other races of earth do because they are not descended from Adam and Eves offspring.


There is a much bigger story about the long history of the earth.

Caino





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August 26th, 2010, 07:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Caino View Post
* Cain was the result of the sin (Eve had sex with a mortal that she found "pleasing to the eye"). The earth was already populated when A&E arrived on their ordained mission of mercy and reformation. The world had already fallen, the beast was already evil and on the earth. The beast convinced Eve that her superior biological contribution would help the fallen state of the worlds races.

* The so called "curse" was in actuallity a biological change that occured within the new bloodlines that were the offspring of Eve then Adam as well. Among the races of Sub Saharan Africa they don't experience anything like the pain of childbirth that the other races of earth do because they are not descended from Adam and Eves offspring.


There is a much bigger story about the long history of the earth.

Caino
Say what?



   
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August 26th, 2010, 07:51 PM

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Originally Posted by bybee View Post
I believe Cain and Abel were born in the garden before the fall for many reasons but most particularly because of the curse God laid on Eve that childbirth would be painful. She would have no basis for comparison if she had not already brought forth children in a painless childbirth.
bybee
Are you trying to start trouble again?! Can you imagine the teen angst movie of the week you could make out of two kids forced to move out of Eden, just as they were starting to make friends? If only John Hughes were still alive...





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August 27th, 2010, 05:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
Adam and Eve did not know each other sexually until after the fall.

Genesis 4:1
Wow... two posts, two errors...

Nang points out the right verse, showing that the sexual activity that produced Cain was after the fall, but there is no indicator in this verse that this was their first sexual contact. In fact, Adam's statement about cleaving indicates that they knew that sex was a part of their relationship. It seems a bit silly to think that they knew this, and yet refrained...

Muz





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August 27th, 2010, 05:48 AM

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I believe Cain and Abel were born in the garden before the fall for many reasons but most particularly because of the curse God laid on Eve that childbirth would be painful. She would have no basis for comparison if she had not already brought forth children in a painless childbirth.bybee
That's pretty weak reasoning, Byebee. But let's assume you are right for a second.

Why were Cain and Abel kicked out of the garden?



   
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Red face Indeed - August 27th, 2010, 06:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
That's pretty weak reasoning, Byebee. But let's assume you are right for a second.

Why were Cain and Abel kicked out of the garden?
You are, of course, correct! Sometimes I muse and sometimes I amuse myself with my musings.
If you had ever brought forth a child you might understand.
Cain and Abel were of the seed of Adam.
Sometimes my mind wanders. I shall attempt to keep it in check!
In the midst of the serious there may be room for some wondering?
peace, bybee



   
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Wellllll - August 27th, 2010, 06:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Lovejoy View Post
Are you trying to start trouble again?! Can you imagine the teen angst movie of the week you could make out of two kids forced to move out of Eden, just as they were starting to make friends? If only John Hughes were still alive...
Not really trouble. Just a minor attempt to show how questions do arise and good exegesis brings us the answers!



   
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August 27th, 2010, 06:08 AM

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Originally Posted by bybee View Post
You are, of course, correct! Sometimes I muse and sometimes I amuse myself with my musings.
If you had ever brought forth a child you might understand.
Cain and Abel were of the seed of Adam.
Sometimes my mind wanders. I shall attempt to keep it in check!
In the midst of the serious there may be room for some wondering?
peace, bybee


I have no problem with musing .. even out loud.

So are you retracting your initial idea?



   
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August 27th, 2010, 06:23 AM

I think the biggest problem with anyone being born before the fall is this:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned... Rom. 5:12
Therefore as by the offence of one judment came upon all men to condemnation... Rom. 5:18
You bring up a good point, though, in that the Lord's statement might not be so meaningful if Eve didn't have a point of comparison.

KJV words the verse this way:
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children... Gen. 3:16
Perhaps the Lord had told Adam and Eve that He had given them the ability to reproduce and how wonderful it would be and lots of other details about it. But with the fall, He informed her that things would change. Rather than just being able to have children, now it would be a long hard road. Baking time would be longer than what He had told her before; it would become painful to her, unlike what He told her before; etc. Of course I'm speculating. But since you're musing, I figure this is a good place for me to muse as well.

Randy





Funny how threads morph.


For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


"You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

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check out Modern Church: Where Tradition Trumps Truth.
   
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Thumbs up Well said! - August 27th, 2010, 06:30 AM

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Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
I think the biggest problem with anyone being born before the fall is this:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned... Rom. 5:12
Therefore as by the offence of one judment came upon all men to condemnation... Rom. 5:18
You bring up a good point, though, in that the Lord's statement might not be so meaningful if Eve didn't have a point of comparison.

KJV words the verse this way:
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children... Gen. 3:16
Perhaps the Lord had told Adam and Eve that He had given them the ability to reproduce and how wonderful it would be and lots of other details about it. But with the fall, He informed her that things would change. Rather than just being able to have children, now it would be a long hard road. Baking time would be longer than what He had told her before; it would become painful to her, unlike what He told her before; etc. Of course I'm speculating. But since you're musing, I figure this is a good place for me to muse as well.

Randy
Thanks Randy, I love the way you talk!
blessings, bybee



   
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August 27th, 2010, 06:31 AM

Thanks, bybee.
I can co-muse-erate with the best of you.





Funny how threads morph.


For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


"You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

__.._
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check out Modern Church: Where Tradition Trumps Truth.
   
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August 27th, 2010, 08:16 AM

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Originally Posted by panza70 View Post
Say what?

......he he, or you could stick with the the old convoluted story, God made two people, put a forbidden tree in the garden and said don’t eat that fruit, they did and the whole world was cursed.......then God drowned everybody and killed everything except a 500 year old Jewish man (ironically kin to the people who wrote the story)....the old guy and his family float around for a year, then all life and races as we know them rapidly re evolve........then something about Noah passed out drunk and naked in his tent....



Caino





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August 27th, 2010, 09:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Caino View Post
* Cain was the result of the sin (Eve had sex with a mortal that she found "pleasing to the eye"). The earth was already populated when A&E arrived on their ordained mission of mercy and reformation. The world had already fallen, the beast was already evil and on the earth. The beast convinced Eve that her superior biological contribution would help the fallen state of the worlds races.

* The so called "curse" was in actuallity a biological change that occured within the new bloodlines that were the offspring of Eve then Adam as well. Among the races of Sub Saharan Africa they don't experience anything like the pain of childbirth that the other races of earth do because they are not descended from Adam and Eves offspring.


There is a much bigger story about the long history of the earth.

Caino





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