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So you think the circular reasoning is only in that addition?
That particular example was. It was from the preface of that edition. I think it was either the teeth of squirrels or chipmunks. It was about a rodent that primarily ate nuts.
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January 5th, 2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
That particular example was. It was from the preface of that edition. I think it was either the teeth of squirrels or chipmunks. It was about a rodent that primarily ate nuts.
And can you explain how what was presented was circular reasoning?
I love circular reasoning:
The bible is always true, because it is the inspired word of god, we know it is the inspired word of god because it tells us so, and it is always true cause god does not lie, the bible tells us so and it must be true because it is the inspired word of god...ad infinitum.
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain", G. Smiley
"Send money, guns and lawyers..." W. Zevon
"If it is possible for something to happen, that is evidence that it did happen." Stripe on TOL
What other animals could be said to have tails that move like cedars, or not be moved by raging rivers?
Crocodile? Particularly a large one. Crocs over 25 feet long have been seen in modern times. Crocs keep growing as long as they live. They have no inherent size limit. And most importantly they are not extrinct.
In any case a poetical discription does not prove the living animal existed, only that the writer could imagine it. Further there is nothing to say that only modern people could find fossiles and recognize them as bones and figure out what the shape of the animal would have to be from those bones. They would not call them dinosaur bones since that is a modern word but they could very see them as evidence of the existence of "dragons" or Behemoth" or "leviathan". What did require modern science was realizing the incredable age of these bones.
Crocodile? Particularly a large one. Crocs over 25 feet long have been seen in modern times. Crocs keep growing as long as they live. They have no inherent size limit. And most importantly they are not extrinct. In any case a poetical discription does not prove the living animal existed, only that the writer could imagine it. Further there is nothing to say that only modern people could find fossiles and recognize them as bones and figure out what the shape of the animal would have to be from those bones. They would not call them dinosaur bones since that is a modern word but they could very see them as evidence of the existence of "dragons" or Behemoth" or "leviathan". What did require modern science was realizing the incredable age of these bones.
How much grass have you seen a croc eat?
Before suggesting any other stupid candidates, atheists should actually read the descriptions they are trying to match:
Job 40:15-23 15 “Look now at the behemoth,[a] which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox.
16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles.
17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit.
18 His bones are like beams of bronze, His ribs like bars of iron.
19 He is the first of the ways of God; Only He who made him can bring near His sword.
20 Surely the mountains yield food for him, And all the beasts of the field play there.
21 He lies under the lotus trees, In a covert of reeds and marsh.
22 The lotus trees cover him with their shade; The willows by the brook surround him.
23 Indeed the river may rage, Yet he is not disturbed; He is confident, though the Jordan gushes into his mouth,
24 Though he takes it in his eyes, Or one pierces his nose with a snare.
...and...
Job 41 1 “Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook, Or snare his tongue with a line which you lower?
2 Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you?
4 Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever?
5 Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens?
6 Will your companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants?
7 Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears?
8 Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle— Never do it again!
9 Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him?
10 No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me?
11 Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine.
12 “I will not conceal his limbs, His mighty power, or his graceful proportions.
13 Who can remove his outer coat? Who can approach him with a double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face, With his terrible teeth all around?
15 His rows of scales are his pride, Shut up tightly as with a seal;
16 One is so near another That no air can come between them;
17 They are joined one to another, They stick together and cannot be parted.
18 His sneezings flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lights; Sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke goes out of his nostrils, As from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21 His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes out of his mouth.
22 Strength dwells in his neck, And sorrow dances before him.
23 The folds of his flesh are joined together; They are firm on him and cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as hard as stone, Even as hard as the lower millstone.
25 When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid; Because of his crashings they are beside themselves.
26 Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; Nor does spear, dart, or javelin.
27 He regards iron as straw, And bronze as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones become like stubble to him.
29 Darts are regarded as straw; He laughs at the threat of javelins.
30 His undersides are like sharp potsherds; He spreads pointed marks in the mire.
31 He makes the deep boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think the deep had white hair.
33 On earth there is nothing like him, Which is made without fear.
34 He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride.”
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January 6th, 2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Stripe
How much grass have you seen a croc eat?
Well before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, crocs were vegetarians. So maybe some were still "micro" evolving from herbivorous to carnivorous then?
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January 6th, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by noguru
Well before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, crocs were vegetarians. So maybe some were still "micro" evolving from herbivorous to carnivorous then?
I kinda wonder about some of those deep sea fish, with their strange and extreme adaptations to the deep.
Weak watery muscles, huge mouth with long fangs, ability to eat enough in one meal to last for a year or more, etc etc etc.
There is no vegetation to eat down there. The only possible food is other living things.
How much did they have to change from being plankton feeders
(carefully screening out the micro zooplankton sos not to hurt anyone)
at the surface to get to where they are now.
Some high speed change i guess, all in one flash. Chomp the apple and the exact instant that happens, all the animals change and start eating eachother.
Anyone wonder why in sensible countries like china, christianity does not make much headway?
Anyone wonder why in sensible countries like china, christianity does not make much headway?
You mean sensible countries that lock up people for disagreeing with politicians, murder whole generations of teachers, outlaw brothers and sisters and practice communism even still?
Crocodile? Particularly a large one. Crocs over 25 feet long have been seen in modern times. Crocs keep growing as long as they live. They have no inherent size limit. And most importantly they are not extrinct.
And crocs eat grass? Try again. The description is very close to a sauropod. I don't know if that is spelled right.
What are your thoughts on dinosaurs in relation to the Bible?
Many people believe dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago.
However, as many have pointed out, dinosaurs were mentioned in the book of Job (Job 40:15-24 (i.e. Sauropod) and Job 41:1-34 (i.e. Leviathan) (Which was an event that transpired after the global flood)). This would then place the existence of dinosaurs living only thousands of years ago and not millions.
In fact, the word "dinosaur" was not invented until the 1800s. So the word "dragon" was used in the King James Bible, before that time.
Dinosaurs along with all other creatures had exclusively had eaten plants or vegetation only (Genesis 1:29). It wasn't until after Noah had left the Ark (after the global flood) till mankind and animals started to eat meat (by God's command and or approval) (Genesis 9:2-3).
Dinosaurs were also on board the Ark, too. However, they were not the full sized adults but the baby junior sized versions. After the dinosaurs had left the Ark, the volcanic activity of the fountains of the deep being broken up in the global flood had caused an ash cloud in the atmosphere which created an ice age. This ice age made it extremely difficult for the dinosaurs to survive in. So about 97-99% of them had went extinct.
In fact, today a paleontologist has discovered soft organic tissue within the bone of a T-Rex. Which tells us that such a discovery could not have survived for millions of years but only thousands. In other words, the Bible is actually true and accurate in the most smallest details (like it always has been).
In addition, if your looking to have your mind blown, I highly recommend that you check out this video here...
What are your thoughts on dinosaurs in relation to the Bible?
Many people believe dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago.
However, as many have pointed out, dinosaurs were mentioned in the book of Job (Job 40:15-24 (i.e. Sauropod) and Job 41:1-34 (i.e. Leviathan) (Which was an event that transpired after the global flood)). This would then place the existence of dinosaurs living only thousands of years ago and not millions.
In fact, the word "dinosaur" was not invented until the 1800s. So the word "dragon" was used in the King James Bible, before that time.
Dinosaurs along with all other creatures had exclusively had eaten plants or vegetation only (Genesis 1:29). It wasn't until after Noah had left the Ark (after the global flood) till mankind and animals started to eat meat (by God's command and or approval) (Genesis 9:2-3).
Dinosaurs were also on board the Ark, too. However, they were not the full sized adults but the baby junior sized versions. After the dinosaurs had left the Ark, the volcanic activity of the fountains of the deep being broken up in the global flood had caused an ash cloud in the atmosphere which created an ice age. This ice age made it extremely difficult for the dinosaurs to survive in. So about 97-99% of them had went extinct.
In fact, today a paleontologist has discovered soft organic tissue within the bone of a T-Rex. Which tells us that such a discovery could not have survived for millions of years but only thousands. In other words, the Bible is actually true and accurate in the most smallest details (like it always has been).
In addition, if your looking to have your mind blown, I highly recommend that you check out this video here...
Even if a small population of sauropods some how managed to stay alive in some isolated place until near modern times that does not prove that the fossile record of their existence in ancient times is in any way disputed. The only thing it would prove is that they were not extinct. Infact many animals that now exist in particular "ecolocical niches" were dominant species at times in the remote past. The "sand lance" is a sort of worm like marine fish that does not have a true back bone. Only a few species of it still exist but at one time similar creatures filled the oceans.
Even if a small population of sauropods some how managed to stay alive in some isolated place until near modern times that does not prove that the fossile record of their existence in ancient times is in any way disputed.
SL:
I agree. The T-Rex soft tissue example is not conclusive proof in and of itself that the Earth is thousands of years old. However, it just one of the many evidences that points to a Young Earth, though. Here is a list of 101 of them (if your interested).
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May 18th, 2012, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason0047
SL:
I agree. The T-Rex soft tissue example is not conclusive proof in and of itself that the Earth is thousands of years old. However, it just one of the many evidences that points to a Young Earth, though. Here is a list of 101 of them (if your interested).
The dinosaur soft tissue wasn't soft tissue. It was soaked in acid for about three or four days and that's what made it soft. Already tried that one. Failed. Check my thread if you like on page two.
Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.
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