toldailytopic: Should AZ shooter Jared Loughner be forgiven?
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toldailytopic: Should AZ shooter Jared Loughner be forgiven? -
January 13th, 2011, 10:10 AM
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 13th, 2011 11:03 AM
toldailytopic: Should AZ shooter Jared Loughner be forgiven?
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As long as people demand more government, they will get it. Government reflects the people.
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 10:12 AM
As no crime was committed against my person, I do not have the authority to forgive this man...
Governments coerce others with a two-edged sword: giving the state the power to do things you like necessarily requires giving the state the power to do things you don't like, and giving the state the power to restrict behavior of which you don't approve gives them the power to restrict behavior of which you do approve. The right way to change hearts and minds is not coercion. It is persuasion
toldailytopic: Should AZ shooter Jared Loughner be forgiven?
Man (through government) has a responsibility to have justice carried out. The death penalty (which we both know Scripture endorses), is the only form of justice that can be served in this particular case.
As Christians, we all hope that Loughner asks Jesus to be his savior and that God forgives him in the end.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbrumley
As no crime was committed against my person, I do not have the authority to forgive this man...
Ditto....not my place.
As a member of society and a citizen with an interest in Justice though, I do call for his swift execution.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
He is guilty of premeditated multiple murders by reason of insanity.
This ought to be one of the pleas in our criminal justice system.
There should not be any possibility that this person is ever allowed to be free.
The problem is bybee, there is always the "possibility" that Loughner could go free (unless he's righteously executed):
"A life-without-parole sanction is a legal provision that specifies that the remainder of the criminal's natural life will be spent in prison. The life-without-parole sanction gained popularity as people realized that a normal life sentence, even a 'natural life' sentence, does not necessarily mean that the offender will be behind bars for life. Almost every state has a provision in its laws so that an offender sentenced to life becomes eligible for parole after a set number of years, or can accrue 'good time' credits and thus be released. Further, in most states the governor, sometimes in concert with a board, may commute a prisoner's sentence or may pardon an individual. In those states, a governor could pardon a prisoner with a life sentence outright, or could commute a life-with-out-parole sentence so that the individual would then be eligible for parole...
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Society has a responsiblity to punish Loughner, we cannot "forgive him" by letting him walk free.
Only God can "forgive" a sinner; man doesn't have that ability. Our only "forgiveness" can be done here on earth, either by letting him walk free or punishing him.
Slogan/motto:
As long as people demand more government, they will get it. Government reflects the people.
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM
As Mr. Block correctly notes:
To whom, then, does the murderer owe his life? Obviously, to the heirs of the victim. If I murder a family man, for example, his widow and children then come to "own" me. They can put me to death, publicly, and charge admission for this event, or they can force me to do hard labor for the rest of my miserable life, the proceeds to go to them. It is a crime and a disgrace that such criminals now enjoy air conditioning, television, exercise rooms, etc. They owe a debt to (the heirs of) their victims, who are now, to add insult to injury, forced to pay again, through taxes, to maintain these miscreants in a relatively luxurious life, compared to what they richly deserve.
Governments coerce others with a two-edged sword: giving the state the power to do things you like necessarily requires giving the state the power to do things you don't like, and giving the state the power to restrict behavior of which you don't approve gives them the power to restrict behavior of which you do approve. The right way to change hearts and minds is not coercion. It is persuasion
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aSeattleConserv
Society has a responsiblity to punish Loughner, we cannot "forgive him" by letting him walk free.
That depends on his defenses under the laws of men, and what you mean by "walk free" and when that occurs, i.e. after rehabilitation in a mental institution.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elohiym
Forgiven in what sense?
Modernity seems to think that forgiveness and punishment are mutually exclusive, though I think many Christians would disagree
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
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“Theist and atheist: The fight between them is as to whether God shall be called God or shall have some other name” S.B.
Reputation:
January 13th, 2011, 11:12 AM
I hope the victims families do find a way to forgive. Holding on to that kind of resentment is bad for the soul.
I'm sure it won't be easy but it's worth the effort. I guess it mostly depends on how psycho man carries himself during his trial.
God is not discoverable or demonstrable by purely scientific means, unfortunately for the scientifically minded. But that really proves nothing. It simply means that the wrong instruments are being used for the job. ~John Bertram Phillips
Legally--Not. He should pay the full penalty for his crimes. That means a swift trial with credible evidence and a speedy execution if the evidence does indeed show he is the murderer.
Spiritually--only if he is repentant and accepts Jesus as his savior. Jesus is the only means by which this egregious sin can be washed from him.
America as a land is polluted, largely, because we are too soft on felons. We give them much less then they deserve.
Ditto....not my place.
More like tolerate perversity.
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