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Real Science Friday: 2011's List of Not So Old Things - February 5th, 2011, 09:32 PM

2011's List of Not So Old Things

This is the show from Friday, February 4th, 2011.

SUMMARY:

* RSF's 2011 List of Not So Old Things: Real Science Friday co-hosts Fred Williams and Bob Enyart observe their annual tradition by updating their classic List of Not So Old Things!

* BEL's February Telethon to Keep Bob On the Air: So far we're at 3 folks giving $20 a month and $2,000 of $20,000! Please consider donating, pledging or subscribing to keep Bob Enyart Live on air for another year, on Denver's 50,000-watt AM 670 KLTT -- America's #1 most-powerful Christian radio station. In return, we pledge to use these funds to continue to reach more and more people around America and around the world with:
- the truth of God's existence
- the strongest evidence against evolution
- the moral clarity of God's Word
- the right strategy to re-criminalize child killing, and
- the mountain of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ!

So please help BEL stay on the air for another year by giving whatever you can afford toward our goal of raising $20,000 or 100 people pledging $20 a month (including those who currently selflessly give to BEL who might increase their giving by $20)! You can give online, either a one-time donation, a monthly pledge, or subscribe to Bob's monthly Bible Studies, BEL Televised Classics, sermons, or topical videos.

* RSF's 2011 EAL SCIENCE FRIDAY - This growing list of scientific observations contains items that even old-earth geologists now admit did not form over millions of years, but rapidly. As reported by KGOV.com's Real Science Friday hosts CRS webmaster Fred Williams and Bob Enyart, many of these scientific finds demand a re-evaluation of supposed million-year ages:

* Soft Tissue T-Rex: Montana State University found soft tissue in a supposedly 65-million year old Tyrannosaurus Rex thighbone that remain supple: see startling photos!

* '155 million year old' - Squid - 'Still Inky': Which two of those three claims are irrefutable? The British Geological Survey's Dr. Phil Wilby gets two right. It was a squid. And it was still inky! See the report of the find and the drawing of the squid drawn by the squid's very own ink!

* Scablands: cover thousands of square miles of eastern Washington and against fierce geologists claims of slow formation over millions of years, there is now overwhelming evidence as presented even in a NOVA TV show that the Scablands formed rapidly from catastrophic, regional flooding.

* Heart Mountain Detachment: near Yellowstone, didn't occur slowly by uniformitarian processes, but in only about 30 minutes a mountain of rock covering 425 square miles broke into 50 pieces and slide apart over an area of more than 1,300 square miles. The evolutionist source LiveScience.com reports, "Land Speed Record: Mountain Moves 62 Miles in 30 Minutes."

* MORE SOFT DINOSAUR TISSUE!: Ho-hum… sooo boring. According to National Geographic, just another dinosaur with soft-tissue, this time, a hadrosaur, with soft blood vessels and connective tissue and… what’s this? Looks like blood cell protein amino acid chains that have already been partially sequenced at Harvard. This supposedly 80-million year-old non-fossilized duck-billed dinosaur tissue was discovered by a team led by researchers at North Carolina State University.

Seems they wanted to get some soft dino tissue, so they put together a team, and just went out and got some. (Consider all the potential soft dino structures, and perhaps even DNA, lost to humanity because of the false evolutionary timescale which so biased paleontology that they never even would look for non-decomposed, non-fossilized biological tissue inside of dinosaur bones.)

And still more: And in the summer of 2010, scientists report the presence of original biological material in archeopteryx feathers and bones, that have survived for 150 million years!

* Rare School of Jellyfish Fossilized: Previously, seven sedimentary layers had been described as taking a million years to form. And because jellyfish have no skeleton, it is rare to find them among fossils. But now, a school of jellyfish fossils have been found in those same seven layers showing that they were not deposited over a million years, but during a single event and quickly enough to trap a school of jellyfish.

* Yellowstone Petrified Tree Strata: The National Park Service took down their deceptive sign that had claimed petrified trees in a dozen different strata had proved that millions of years had passed during the rise and fall of successive forests. But the petrified trees there had no root systems, and the trees were clearly transported by water and settled into rapidly deposited sediments just as had occurred in Spirit Lake after Mount St. Helens erupted. Bob Enyart had the honor of working with the head ranger at a National Park (had dinner at his home; discussed how this sign could be removed), and he corresponded with his colleagues at Yellowstone and urged them to correct or remove the sign. They removed it. (See also AIG.).

* European vs. Asiatic Honeybees: these two populations of bees have been separated supposedly for seven million years. A researcher decided to put the two together to see what would happen. What we should have here is a failure to communicate that would have resulted after their "language" evolved over millions of years. However, European and Asiatic honeybees are still able to communicate, putting into doubt the evolutionary claim that they were separated over "geologic periods." For more, see Real Science Friday at KGOV.com, Nov. 7, 2008 and Creation Magazine, September 2008 and PLoS ONE (Public Library of Science) 4 June 2008.

* Carlsbad Cavern: New Mexico, Nat'l Park Service sign said 260 MYA, then 8MYA, then 2MYA, and then they took down the sign claiming formation took millions of year. On Bob Enyart's family vacation in 2005 the official audio tour states, "rate of formation depends on the amount of available water." See RSF 11-7-08 at KGOV.

* Lihir Gold Deposit: in Papua New Guinea, evolutionists assumed the more than 20 million ounces of gold in the Lihir reserve took millions of years to deposit, but geologists can now demonstrate that the deposit could have formed in thousands of years, or far more quickly!

* Box Canyon, Idaho: Geologists now think Box Canyon in Idaho, USA, was carved by a catastrophic flood and not slowly over millions of years with 1) huge plunge pools formed by waterfalls; 2) the almost complete removal of large basalt boulders from the canyon; 3) an eroded notch on the plateau at the top of the canyon; and 4) water scour marks on the basalt plateau leading to the canyon. Scientists calculate that the flood was so large that it could have eroded the whole canyon in as little as 35 days. Creation Magazine, Sept. – Nov. 2008 page 7 from Science 23 May 2008, pp. 1067-1070

* Manganese Nodules: which allegedly form only over "geologic time periods" have formed "around beer cans" according to a World Almanac documentary, of course disproving the million-year requirement! There are also reports of manganese nodules forming on old World War II ships.

* Mitochondrial Eve: by quantifying the differences in the human genome of mitochondrial DNA and tracking its mutation rate, scientists calculate that there is not millions of years worth of mutations among mankind but only thousands of years. Initially, by admittedly including chimpanzee DNA among their data, evolutionists calculated that Eve lived more than 200,000 years ago, but using actual human mutation rates, she is now dated as just tens of thousands, and even only six thousand years old! See also Creation.com's "A shrinking date for 'Eve'" and Science magazine's "Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock."

* Super Nova Remnants: an explosion appeared in the night sky in 1054 A.D. as a supernova remnant (SNR) in the Crab Nebula. Evolutionary scientists have measured and calculated the expected rate that stars would explode. However, if the universe is billions of years old, the vast majority of SNRs (like the Crab Nebula) that should exist, are missing! Instead, the number of SNRs corresponds well to the expected number if the universe is less than 10,000 years old, especially considering that astronomers have not found a single SNR at Stage 3 (a great diameter)! Of course, if the universe is young, there should be no State 3 SNRs! Listen to this Real Science Friday program at KGOV.com!

* Fossils with Protein, DNA and Bacteria: As listed in 2008 by Dr. Walt Brown…
- allegedly 17 million year old magnolia leaf contains DNA (Scientific American 1993)
- allegedly 100 million year old dinosaur fossil contains protein (Science News 1992)
- allegedly 120 million year old insect fossil contains DNA (Nature 1993)
- allegedly 200 million year old fish fossil contains DNA (Science. News 1992)
- allegedly 30 million year old bee fossil contains LIVING bacteria (Science 1995)
- allegedly 600 million year old rock contains LIVING bacillus (Nature 2000).

* Saturn’s Rings: do not show the stability predicted by their presumed 50 to 100 million year-old age, but have changed significantly since man’s first mappings. See RSF 4-10-06 at KGOV.

* Earth's Magnetic Field Reversals: Disproving any notion that magnetic reversals must occur over long periods, as documented by Dr. Walt Brown, Evidence Suggesting Extremely Rapid Field Variations During a Geomagnetic Reversal, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 1989; Earth's Field Flipping Fast, New Scientist, 1992; New Evidence for Extraordinarily Rapid Change of the Geomagnetic Field During a Reversal, Nature 1995. "At one time the orientation of the earth's magnetic field changed rapidly?by up to 6 degrees per day for several days," Brown, 2008.

* Polystrate Fossils: In a thousand locations including the Fossil Cliffs of Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate fossils such as trees span many strata disproving the claim that the layers were deposited slowly over millions of years. See CRSQ June 2006, ICR Impact #316, and RSF 8-11-06 at KGOVArchives.org.

* Carbon-14 Unexpectedly Found… Everywhere: Carbon-14 decays in only thousands of years, and therefore, cannot last for millions of years. Thus evolutionists are shocked to find Carbon-14 EVERYWHERE it shouldn't be if the earth were old. Carbon-14 is found in diamonds, coal, oil, dinosaur fossils, and amber! In a recent find, Fall 2007 CRSQ, radiocarbon exists even in supposedly million-year-old two-mile deep natural gas wells: "Once again, fossil gas is not carbon-14 dead. Thus, the age of the gases is on the order of thousands, not millions of years.” See RSF 3-28-08 at KGOV.

* Spiral Galaxies: after their alleged billions of years the spiral arms of “pinwheel” galaxies should now be deformed, since as has been known for decades, the speed of the arms does not align with the galaxy centers, so there is “missing billions of years” of deformation in spiral galaxies. Atheistic astronomers have great difficulty even explaining where our own Moon came from, let alone the entire universe, and they admit they can’t even figure out which formed first, stars or galaxies, showing that their Big Bang theory does not merit the absolute trust that millions put in it. Thus far from being able to explain how the universe could form apart from God, they are groping in the dark. See RSF 7-25-08 at KGOV.

* Rocks Harden in Days: According to scientists at Murdoch University, experiments prove that rocks don't need eons to harden but by adding bacteria to "soft sand," they end up with "something resembling marble more than sandstone." See Science Alert and Creation Magazine, September 2010.

* Even Faster Rocks: As listed in Dec, 2010 Creation Matters, radiometric dating by Rubidium-Strontium gives a 1.3 billion year age for lava atop the Grand Canyon which would be 300 million years older than the precambrian basalt at the bottom of the canyon, as reported by Steven Austin, Ph.D. And the Potassium-Argon dating method incorrectly indicates that certain minerals hardened into stone 350,000 years ago, when in reality they solidified just recently, in 1986 at Mount St. Helens, and some of the mineral within the then ten-year old rock was wrongly dated as two million years old.

* Yikes! Millions of Years are MISSING Here: According to evolutionary geologists, there are MORE THAN 100 MILLION YEARS MISSING in the extraordinarily regular and straight layers of the Grand Canyon!

Supposed geological layers entirely missing from the beautifully formed Grand Canyon strata include the Ordovician and the Silurian. The flat boundaries between strata provide hard evidence proving that millions of years of erosion DID NOT OCCUR, and that therefore, those millions of years DID NOT PASS, neither in the canyon nor anywhere on Earth, for they are an atheistic fiction.

* Special Editions of Real Science Friday:
- BEL's famous List of Not-So-Old Things
- Bob's debate with Christian Darwinist British author James Hannam
- PZ Myers blogs against Real Science Friday so Bob hits back with the Trochlea Challenge
- Waiting for Darwin's Other Shoe: Evolution mag's cover story Darwin Was Wrong on the Tree of Life
- Microbiologist in Studio: Bob talks with the Creation Research Society Quarterly editor about new genetic findings
- Caterpillar Kills Atheism: describe how a bug could evolve to liquefy itself and then build itself into a flying creature
- And see RSF Offer of $2,000 to get 16 letters of the alphabet in their correct places; $500 pd in 1998; $1,500 in 2010!

For our RSF Friends: in case you miss other BEL programs, here are some of the atheists Bob Enyart has debated:
- ABC's Reginald Finley, called The Infidel Guy, from ABC's Wife Swap program; 3-26-07;
- TheologyOnline's psychologist Zakath in a 10-round moderated written online debate, also available in soft cover;
- TOL's member who calls himself Fool; 3-28-06;
- John Henderson who wrote the book God.com 6-15-2006;
- Carlos Morales, Fox News, Huffington Post, etc. reports on U of Texas atheists Bible-turn in program, president of Atheist Agenda 7-14-10
- Freedom from Religion Foundation's Dan Barker (put the atheist sign near the Nativity at the capitol in Seattle) who was involved with the ministry of Kathryn Kuhlman, one of a group of so-called faith healers. (See a BEL listener who initially compared Bob to Benny Hinn until...) The BEL show was on 12-11-08;
- Michael Shermer, an editor with Scientific American and the Skeptic Society who in in this famous 73-second excerpt on BEL denied that the sun is a light, illustrating that it's tough debating atheists when they're hesitant to admit to even the most obvious common ground. 8-28-03

* Today's Resource: Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out especially Walt Brown's
In the Beginning and Bob's interviews with this great scientist in Walt Brown Week! You'll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez' Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media's Unlocking the Mystery of Life You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart's Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with famous evolutionist Dr. Eugenie Scott; And the superb kids' radio programming, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI's tremendous Creation magazine!
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February 8th, 2011, 06:22 AM

Pastor Bob still relying on those beer can manganese nodules, huh? Do we not recall that prior thread discussing them? I am certain we do. Perhaps Pastor Bob and his scientist guests should take the time to review and delete them from the list. It would appear that in some circumstances manganese nodules can form quickly but usually not. That is what the science says. to suggest that the fast formation of such nodules is proof that they all form quickly is a misrepresentation of the facts. It is akin to seeing the tides in the Bay of Fundy and expecting Lake Huron to show the same tidal fluctuation.





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February 9th, 2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukia View Post
Pastor Bob still relying on those beer can manganese nodules, huh? Do we not recall that prior thread discussing them? I am certain we do. Perhaps Pastor Bob and his scientist guests should take the time to review and delete them from the list. It would appear that in some circumstances manganese nodules can form quickly but usually not. That is what the science says. to suggest that the fast formation of such nodules is proof that they all form quickly is a misrepresentation of the facts. It is akin to seeing the tides in the Bay of Fundy and expecting Lake Huron to show the same tidal fluctuation.
And what about the other 23 points made in the O.P.?





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February 9th, 2011, 10:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Jefferson View Post
And what about the other 23 points made in the O.P.?
Can't be bothered. A simple google search usually provides the facts with are usually at odds with Pastor Enyart and his "sciency" buddies.

I learned my lesson with the manganese nodules several years ago. Just surprised he still has the nerve to bring it up.





"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain", G. Smiley

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February 9th, 2011, 11:19 AM

If paleontology, physics, anthropology, linguistics, and other disciplines were as easy and straight forward as Enyart continually tries to make them out to be, your run of the mill Wal-Mart parking lot cart pusher would be able to secure a doctorate without breaking a sweat.





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February 9th, 2011, 11:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Granite View Post
If paleontology, physics, anthropology, linguistics, and other disciplines were as easy and straight forward as Enyart continually tries to make them out to be, your run of the mill Wal-Mart parking lot cart pusher would be able to secure a doctorate without breaking a sweat.


Looking for a way out, Granite?





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

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February 9th, 2011, 11:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Jukia View Post
Can't be bothered. A simple google search usually provides the facts with are usually at odds with Pastor Enyart and his "sciency" buddies. I learned my lesson with the manganese nodules several years ago. Just surprised he still has the nerve to bring it up.
Julia is only here to try and convince people not to think and engage in conversation.





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

"...the waters under the "expanse" were under the crust."
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February 9th, 2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Julia is only here to try and convince people not to think and engage in conversation.
Nah, I leave that up to those who cannot provide evidence for their posts. That tends to shut down conversation, as you well know.





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February 9th, 2011, 11:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Jukia View Post
Nah, I leave that up to those who cannot provide evidence for their posts. That tends to shut down conversation, as you well know.
Oh, well then you should be able to talk for hours about the OP.





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

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February 9th, 2011, 11:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Granite View Post
...Wal-Mart parking lot cart pusher .....
Ahem
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February 9th, 2011, 11:46 AM

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AhemCart Retrevial Technician
Leave Granite alone. It's an honest living!






Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

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December 2nd, 2011, 01:32 PM

Hi again, long-time BEL watcher/listener here (been watching/listening to the show since the late 1990s now; miss the TV show so much, but enjoy the radio shows every day).

I have an old friend from high school who is an atheist. When I knew him in school, he was a Christian, but fell astray via the common route - learning science from the viewpoint of Old Earth Evolutionism.

Quote:
When I was growing up, I used to believe in YEC, until I looked at the evidence. It has been a long, strange trip for me, but the more I have learned about reality, the more I realize how false the Bible truly is.

Science says nothing about God. There are atheist scientists and there are Christian scientists. It is completely possible to be a scientist, to believe in a completely rational worldview, but to reserve a corner of one's mind for the irrational belief in God/Allah/Thor. Religion and science have nothing to do with each other. Even bigger picture, it is impossible to prove that something does not exist. I can tell you how there are cyclops ninja monkeys hanging out in my backyard. You cannot see them because they are ninjas.
We throw some ideas back and forth from time to time. Often I'll quote AnswersinGenesis and he'll quote TalkOrigins.org. A few months ago, I sent him KGOV's great list of "Not So Old Things". And just recently he responded. I thought I'd post them here for everyone to discuss:

Quote:
So KGOV has provided us with a list of young structures to show that we live in a young universe. Let us think about how much sense this makes:

The building I live in was built in 1959. This proves that we live in a young universe.

This statement makes no sense at all. KGOV's list is worthless as evidence of a young universe. But wait, it gets better! If you had taken the time to actually read their list, you would know that this is NOT just a list of young structures. This is also list of structures that formed rapidly. Let us think about how much sense this makes:

The building I live in only took a few months to build. This means we live in a young universe.
This statement is even more ridiculous. KGOV's list is even more worthless than it appears to be at first glance. Let us help KGOV out and improve their logic, shall we? How about we make this statement:

The building I live in was built in 1959. This proves that the universe has existed since at least 1959.

At long last, we have a statement that makes some sense! Let us apply it to KGOV's list.

So the fact that real scientists have discovered soft tissue in dinosaur remains is bad how?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ofttissue.html

So the fact that the Scablands were formed between 13,000 and 15,000 years ago proves that the universe is 6,000 years old. Riiiiight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods

The fact that Heart Mountain was cataclysmically deformed ~48 million years ago says the same thing?
http://geology.about.com/od/structur...eartmtn_ls.htm

150 million year old squids show that the universe is young?

Fossilized jellyfish from the Cambrian, 500 million years ago show the same thing?

Is KGOV telling us that the petrified forests of Yellowstone came about during the Eocene-Ogliocene eras (22-55 million years ago) shows that the universe is young? No, all they are saying is that political pressure made the park service take down the signs. Nice bait-and-switch.

So honeybees can still communicate. So what is your point?

And again, the park service took down a sign. This means nothing.

So the Lihir gold deposits formed rapidly during the miocene-pleistocene era (23-2.5 MYA). Again, this is far older than your supposed age of the universe
http://whatonearth.olehnielsen.dk/ro...gold/lihir.asp

And again we see a structure that formed rapidly that happens to be older than the universe. Bow Canyon, Idaho formed 45,000 years ago
http://www.space.com/5382-ancient-fl...arth-mars.html

Manganese nodules form rapidly. Again, this says nothing about the age of the universe.

The articles that KGOV links to with the mDNA even talk about human dispersal from Africa being 55,000-70,000 years ago. You have obviously not bothered to do basic research on your own evidence.
://ww.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297%2809%2900163-3

Spiral galaxies: we have a pretty good idea of where the moon came from: it was formed by a collision between the earth and a second body. I have already shown you this. We also know how galaxies form: with a supermassive black hole in the center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_galaxies

And we discovered the smoking gun for the Big Bang, cosmic microwave background radiation, way back in 1964. KGOV is ignoring evidence that is almost 50 years old. KGOV is a joke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...ound_radiation

Supernova remnants: First, in order for a supernova to take place, a star has to have formed, and then consumed its available fuel. This sets a several billion year old floor for the age of the universe. As for the remnants themselves, they are red dwarfs, which are very hard to detect. This claim has been debunked over 11 years ago:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/supernova/snrfab.html

And again, KGOV shoots themselves in the foot by listing fossils that are millions of years old.

Saturn's rings have actually remained rather stable since their first observation in 1659. Yet again, KGOV is completely wrong:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovi...ea.html#proof9

And here we see KGOV taking the fact that the Earth's magnetic field can reverse rapidly and tying to use it as evidence of a young universe. Yet again, this is useless.

As for polystrate fossils, that term is not even a scientific term, but this supposed major problem was solved in the 19th century. How far behind the times is KGOV, anyway?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html

As for carbon-14 being unexpectedly found...everywhere, carbon-14 is produced by decay of other elements. Of course there is going to be carbon-14...everywhere. KGOV has conveniently ignored this fact. KGOV has also conveniently ignored the fact that if the universe was actually 6,000 years old, we could carbon-date...Everything organic.
Since carbon-14 is detectable for ~60,000 years, our inability to carbon-date things older than this shows that the universe is more than 60,000 years old.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c14.html

Rocks harden in days. Yet again, something forming rapidly means nothing about the age of the universe, especially considering that the oldest rocks we have found on Earth are around 4 BILLION years old!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_dated_rocks

So the fact that millions of years are missing from the Grand Canyon means that the universe is young. Just think about how ridiculous that statement is.

The oldest thing on this list is ~4 billion years old. Your own evidence shows that the universe is a minimum of 4 billion years old. Your own evidence shows that we live in an old universe. Your own evidence shows that you are fundamentally wrong.

Now that we have disposed of KGOV's not-so-young-things list by placing it into its proper receptacle, I have a very simple question for you: The vast majority of the normal matter we see in the universe is hydrogen. Where did all the other elements come from? How did carbon, nitrogen and oxygen come into being? More importantly, where did every element heavier than iron come from? I'd like you to at least try and answer this question. You'll find that these are severe problems, and you'll either admit it or ignore them.

So the fact that everything I have shown makes YEC look ridiculous means that I have not shown anything. The fact that you have shown no evidence whatsoever means that YEC is true. The fact that the one time you have tried to show evidence, it showed that you are completely wrong means that YEC is correct. Yeah. Good luck on that one.
Now, my friend seems to have missed the point about the 'Not So Old' list. It is a list of things that most OEE's use to "prove" that the universe is old, and the list proclaims that these things aren't as old as OEE's say.

My friend has a LOT more to say. This is just what he had to say about this subject. However, he has a LOT more to say on some of Bob's other postings. In fact, he gets quite sarcastic at times. He did not read the whole Zakath vs. Enyart debate, but he had a few problems with some things that Bob said in them. This isn't all, but rather just a few, such as:

Quote:
As for whether God exists or not, that is NOT a scientific question. Let's confine ourselves to what can be conclusively determined, shall we? And I highly doubt that theology online will give an unbiased opinion on that question.

Wild claim #1 Flood geology began with Ellen White...Nooooo, flood geology was first written down in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was distorted and turned into the story of Noah by the Isrealites. Whoever wrote this has apparently never read their own Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh
Wild claim #2 Hey look, they agree with me! YEC “requires one to regard virtually all of modern science as fundamentally mistaken... about most of the... principles that have made modern technologies possible.”
But let us look at their list. Are they saying that light bulbs and vacuums are living creatures that have evolved? Can steel mate with iron, or can it only reproduce with other steel blocks? Can air conditioners breed with fans, or is that “macro”evolution, which does not work?
Are you sure that KGOV is a YEC source? This list comes really close to Poe's Law as a satire of YEC beliefs to show how ridiculous they are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

As your author states, anyone pre-Darwin is useless as evidence against evolution. That is like asking you or me what our thoughts on the mechanics of faster-than-light travel are. So let us look at the post-Darwin people: Out of the millions of scientists worldwide, your copypasta has found ~20 who supposedly believe in Creationism. Color me unimpressed:A recent poll has found that out of scientists in relevant fields, 0.15% believe in Creationism. In other words, the people who know the most about the subject overwhelmingly support evolution. This is a grand slam hat trick touchdown. There is no controversy to teach because there is no controversy at all. Yet again, science wins and Creationism loses.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA111.html

As for SETI, Crick, one of the discoverers of DNA, thought that the earth was seeded by alien life forms:
http://creation.com/designed-by-alie...ism-panspermia

A Nobel Prize winner believed in something completely ridiculous. Einstein disagreed with quantum theory until the day he died. Does this mean that we should kowtow to them? Of course not, as there is no evidence to support either ridiculous notion.

Every Nobel Prize winner earns their prize by overthrowing some aspect of science and providing amazing evidence of a better way to go about things. Crick discovered the double helix shape of DNA and overthrew our notions of biochem. Einstein overthrew our notions of gravity, motion and spacetime. Michaelson overthrew our belief in the ether and showed how the speed of light in a vacuum was a constant and did not change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates

So show the world the evidence for creation in the genetic code. A Nobel Prize and $1 million awaits you for overthrowing our backwards notions of science. This is your chance to become famous and wealthy, and you would not even need to have a reality TV show!

“Medieval academics were intellectually enslaved to the geo-centrism of pagans Aristotle and Ptolemy. They had no justification to shut down debate on heliocentrism” Funny, last time I checked, when Galileo publicized heliocentrism, the Catholic Church reacted rather violently. From the Papal condemnation of Galileo:

“And in order that this your grave and pernicious error and transgression may not remain altogether unpunished and that you may be more cautious in the future and an example to others that they may abstain from similar delinquencies, we ordain that the book of the "Dialogues of Galileo Galilei" be prohibited by public edict.

“We condemn you to the formal prison of this Holy office during our pleasure, and by way of salutary penance we enjoin that for three years to come you repeat once a week at the seven penitential Psalms. Reserving to ourselves liberty to moderate, commute or take off, in whole or in part, the aforesaid penalties and penance.

“And so we say, pronounce, sentence, declare, ordain, and reserve in this [and in] any other better way and form which we can and may rightfully employ.”

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...demnation.html

Thanks to his heresy of heliocentrism, and his challenge of the ultimate authority of the Church, Galileo was placed under house arrest and rotted until the day he died. So much for not shutting down the debate on heliocentrism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo..._heliocentrism

But let us ignore history since it disagrees with your beliefs. Let us also ignore history since this is a rather obvious attempt by you to deflect attention away from the fact that your own words have shown how the Bible was written by flat-earthers.

Since “today's institutional science, enslaved by its political correctness, similarly has no justification to shut down creation debate,” why do we not see more amazing discoveries made by these creation scientists? Why do they labor in obscurity and refuse to publish their results where they can overthrow our quaint notions of what constitutes real science?

And yes, I do say that Creationism/ID is laughable and should not even be considered as part of a debate on science and origins. Show me the money. “Where is your creationist PS3? Your creationist HDTV? How has creationism shown us one thing about the universe?”
There's more. We've been going back and forth for quite some time via email and Facebook. I look forward to reading input on this. God bless!





-Chris ChrusherComix:
Graphic Artist/Novelist , Karting Enthusiast , and defender of the Faith.
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Frayed Knot Frayed Knot is offline
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December 2nd, 2011, 03:20 PM

Chris Crusher, you want input? Your friend is completely right. You should spend more time with him.

The first question you should ask yourself is "How do I know what I think I know?" If your only answer is that it's in a 2000-year-old book written by pre-scientific sheep herders, that should tell you something.



   
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Chris Chrusher Chris Chrusher is offline
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December 2nd, 2011, 03:50 PM

I see you provided no evidence other than biased opinion, Frayed Knot, so I reject your input as folly. Typical of arrogant, snarky atheists who have no foundation other than rebellion against truth, common sense and right in order to to believe the impossible rather than believe in a Creator. Mock without evidence. If the religious dogma of evolution - postulated by a flawed racist of a man in rebellion against God who admitted his theory was flawed - is all you have to stand on, you are painfully mistaken.

Also, I'll repeat the same thing to all atheists... you seem to ignore this critical error and want to talk about the Bible or that the Bible is old, like that refutes it. The details of any discussion do not matter if your foundation is not there, Bible or no Bible.

Science says the universe is finite. It has not always existed. It had a beginning. Every rational person – scientist or not – agrees. However, how did the universe create itself from nothing? What is the naturalistic explanation? It defies all the known laws of science. Science cannot answer it. The only possible explanation is that something supernatural occurred at the beginning. To an atheist, they are speechless. They have nothing. To a theist, they believe the supernatural act that made the universe from nothing is a supernatural God – a being or force that lives outside of the natural laws and sciences. We also know that our earth is in the perfect spot in the universe for life. If one thing changed (distance from sun, distance of the moon, so on and so forth), life as we know it would cease to exist. This is improbable and irrational? No, rather the reasoning of how life existed without a supernatural origin is irrational. Atheists often talk about belief in God being as dumb as belief in aliens, but most Christians do not believe in them (they believe that it may be possible for life on other worlds to exist, but the chances are slim-to-none), while leading anti-Creationist/pro-evolutionists will often resort to the irrational belief of aliens seeding the earth, or the even more exceedingly irrational, evidence-free belief in alternate dimensions. Both just punt the question that continues to go unanswered. If aliens did seed the earth, what the heck made the aliens that seeded the earth? Time plus chance does not create everything we know from absolute nothingness.

Also, you, as an atheist, must continue to believe that the theory of evolution (Darwinist, macro-evolution – single-celled organisms spontaneously sprouting to life from non-living matter, and all living things having evolved from single-celled organisms over millions of years) is science. It is not. It failed the scientific method. It is not falsifiable. There is zero empirical evidence for it. Much like how the atheist postulates that belief in God is irrational because we cannot see Him, or trying to prove space ape monkey aliens don’t exist because we've never seen them, evolution is believed with no evidence. Less than a supernatural God. At least theistic evolution can say that the irrational and illogical theory could happen because of guidance. Atheists don't have that crutch. They must explain the impossible using science. Mathematics and chance make atheist highly illogical. Chance + time is all you have. Yet all we know about genetics, the fossil record, statistical probability, daily observance of living things for our entire history – shows us that it has never been observed once and that mutations are always detrimental with a loss of information rather than a gain. Devolution. We see dogs breeding dogs. Sure, some are wolves and some are poodles, but they all are related and can breed if they don’t kill each other or can perform (without size differential preventing it). But dogs don’t breed cats and have man-cats. Humans don’t have sex with apes and make super-strong, but simple-minded man-apes (something that many scientists within the socialist governments in the WW-eras tried to do with no avail to make a super-army). We don’t see frog turtles or snake birds. We see all kinds of different turtles, birds and frogs, but no cross-breeds. Anywhere in the fossil record. Even the greatest and most rabid evolutionists admit there are no transitional forms found anywhere and it is a problem for the theory. So, when we speak of science, science doesn’t say that Naturalistic evolution or Creator God exists. Scientists do. People do. Interpretation of facts, logic and evidence. And all of the points that my atheist friend made just come from biased OEE's. I'll admit, a lot of the things I believe come from YEC’s. We all look at truth through lenses. Science is just observation. The conclusion is what makes the theories. But you, nor any other snarky atheist I have ever met, still have not shown me the naturalistic origins of the universe and then of life. That, to me, is the most irrational belief in the world.

Also, you misspelled my name.





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December 4th, 2011, 07:40 AM

Wow. Mr. Chrusher summed up the atheists pretty quickly, huh?





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

"...the waters under the "expanse" were under the crust."
-Bob B.

Nominate POTYs. See this thread.

Last edited by Stripe; December 4th, 2011 at 11:00 AM..
   
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