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Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Lightbulb March 5th, 2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
I don't believe in Replacement theology, and believe you do a discredit to Paul. He is simply saying that even among the people Israel, there are those who are believers and those who are not. He knows that it makes a difference if you are a believer or not. A believer is a chosen person of God. A non-believer... it doesn't matter if they call themselves the people of God or not... is not counted among the chosen (of promise, along with Abraham, the believer).

Do you remember what was the token of the Abrahamic Covenant?
Circumcision and not faith. And "That token or God's Covenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING Covenant." Read Genesis 17:13.
Paul used to preach against the circumcision. It means he annuled the evelasting Word of God.



   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
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March 5th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Paul is lying in Acts 24:14, because "The Way" was the Sect of the Nazarenes who gathered in synagogues, and Paul definitely did not serve God according to the Nazarenes. Read Acts 9:1,2. On the contrary he used to persecute the Nazarenes synagogues of Damascus to arrest those who followed "The Way."
I don't believe Paul is lying at all. I believe you are a false witness.
Quote:
Acts 13:1 is a forgery because the prophetical system had ceased with the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. Since then, God had no longer allowed the rising of a prophet, because we no longer needed to be taught how to know the Lord. God's Word had been made available to all of us from the least to the greatest. It was not up in heaven or beyond the sea that we should wonder who would go up to heaven or across the sea to bring it to us so that we obey it. It was written in our own hearts and as close to us as our own mouth. We had only to have access to it and do it. Read Jeremiah 31:34 and Deuteronomy 30:11-14.
I've read both of these passages and do not understand them the same way you do. Do you believe the NT came to be when the Jews left Babylon or when the Jews returned to their homeland in the mid-1900s? I grew up hearing about the new covenant in Jesus.
Quote:
Matthew 16:18 is a 4th Century pious forgery by the Church to enhance Peter as the first Pope and add apostolical credit to the Church.
I don't follow the Catholic Pope or your opinion of forgery here. Why do you believe it is a forgery?
Quote:
It is impossible because Peter was an illiterate and an unlearned ignorant man, who perhaps could not even sign his name. He could hardly have been the first Pope.
I have never said that he was a Pope. I was talking about the church. See LINK.
Quote:
Then, he was a Jewish man and had nothing to do with Christianity. Read Acts 4:13)
He was a Jewish man who followed the Messiah. These people were called Christians first at Antioch.
Quote:
Of course the word church is spoken manywhere in the NT. What did you want? The Jewish Theology had to be replaced. And that included to erase the name of synagogues from the text.
Well, I didn't want you to say that you believe all of Christianity (belief in Jesus as the Messiah) is Replacement Theology or anti-semitic.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
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March 5th, 2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Do you remember what was the token of the Abrahamic Covenant?
Romans 4:11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
Quote:
Circumcision and not faith. And "That token or God's Covenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING Covenant." Read Genesis 17:13.
Paul used to preach against the circumcision. It means he annuled the evelasting Word of God.
Paul preached against circumcision when it is used to violate the word of God.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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Nick Hallandale Nick Hallandale is offline
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March 5th, 2011, 10:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Okay, take a look at this and tell me if this is not an attempt to replace the Jewish Theology with Christian Theology by Paul:

Replacement Theology

Replacement Theology is as old as Christianity itself, considering that the etimology of the expression acquired its real meaning with the rise of Christianity.

Some people object to the focusing on Christianity for the reason why Replacement Theology originated, because the Jewish People was not the only ancient people with the original claim to be God's chosen People.

It's true that a few other ancient peoples upheld the same claim, but there was never one to rise with the claim that a people had been replaced by another as God's chosen People.

Christianity became the first religious organization to rise with the claim that a change had occurred in the designs of God, which would
define the rejection of the Jewish People, and resplacement with Christianity.

The classical NT document, which would give rise to this Christian policy is found in Galatians 4:21-31.

Paul would compare God's Covenant with the Jewish People as Hagar, who was Sara's slave girl, and the Jews as her son, who was rejected even to share with Isaac, the inheritance of Canaan. On
the other hand, he compares Christianity to Sara and Christians to her son Isaac.

To conclude, Paul appeals to cast out the slave girl together with her son for the obvious reason that Israel, the Jewish People, would never be an heir with the son of the one born free.

That's the picture of Replacement Theology and not simply a people claiming Divine election. A group of Interfaith Scholars have classified Replacement Theology as a kind of Antisemitism.

Ben
Isaiah 59:21 (New American Standard Bible)
"As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."

Isaiah 54:10 (New American Standard Bible)
"For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake,
But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you,
And My covenant of peace will not be shaken,"
Says the LORD who has compassion on you.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 (New American Standard Bible)
35Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
36"If this fixed order departs
From before Me," declares the LORD,
"Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever."


Replacement Theology is a Fraud. God himself testifies of his eternal covenant with the Jewish people.



   
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Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Lightbulb March 10th, 2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hallandale View Post
Isaiah 59:21 (New American Standard Bible)
"As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."

Isaiah 54:10 (New American Standard Bible)
"For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake,
But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you,
And My covenant of peace will not be shaken,"
Says the LORD who has compassion on you.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 (New American Standard Bible)
35Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
36"If this fixed order departs
From before Me," declares the LORD,
"Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever."


Replacement Theology is a Fraud. God himself testifies of his eternal covenant with the Jewish people.

You are absolutely right Nick, and I agree with you 101 percent. Now, our role is to fight Replacement Theology. But diplomatically. We are a small People against perhaps a billion that Christianity is composed of of. I have found out through my researches in the NT, that Replacement Theology is the main Christian doctrine.

Sometimes, I sit down before the Television to listen to TV Evangelism, and the preachers from their pulpits cannot open their mouth, and they are preaching Replacement Theology. Some even confess their love for the Jewish People, like Pastor John Haggins, but they can't help. Replacement Theology and Christianity is one and the same. For a Christian to stop promoting Replacement Theology he or she must stop talking about Christ or their religion at all. That's a real dilemma.



   
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Lightbulb March 10th, 2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
Romans 4:11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, Paul preached against circumcision when it is used to violate the word of God.

Since Abraham until this very day, circumcision has been used by the Jews rather to honour the Evelasting Word of God. Paul was the one who used the circumcision to violate the Word of God by preaching against the Word of God. Likewise, all his followers who still do the same Pauline job today.
Ben



   
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March 10th, 2011, 05:38 PM

Hey Ben Masada,

What is your point.

Are you trying to Prove that JESUS is not the True Messiah.

That is it , isn't it.

JEALOUSY will eat you up guy.

Jesus fulfills all the requirements and offers much more which is beyond
your comprehension.





GOD HAS PROMISED US IMMORTALITY
   
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Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Lightbulb March 10th, 2011, 06:13 PM

[QUOTE=Untellectual;2601201]
Quote:
I don't believe Paul is lying at all. I believe you are a false witness.
Believe what you please, but tell me, how many lies do you want me to provide you with, which Paul said, to persuade you that he was a liar? Just let me know and I'll bring them up to you with the appropriate quotations from your NT.

Quote:
I've read both of these passages and do not understand them the same way you do.
You mean Jeremiah 31:34 and Deuteonomy 30:11-14? Under the Sinaitic Covenant, we had to be taught by Priests, Levites, Scribes and Prophets how to know God through His laws. First because of our illiteracy; and second because the text was not available to the people but only to the religious elite. However, when a transgression was committed, the whole comunity would have to suffer for the sins
of the individual.

During exile in Babylon, due to the fact that the Jews had made the Country several times richer than before, the King had allowed special priviledges to them in compensation for their services to the Country. Some of the priviledges were higher education and freedom enjoyed by preeminent citizens. Then, Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel organized the Scriptures and made them available to all from the least to the greatest, in preparation for the establishment
of the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31.

When the 70 years of exile was over, a small remnant returned to the Land of Israel because the majority had become too rich in Babylon and decided to stay in the Diaspora and help Israel from outside. Where do you think Herod got all the money he needed to build such a sumptious Temple as he built if not from the Babylonian Jews?

Now, before you ask about Deuteronomy 30:11-14, that fragment was written by Ezra and inserted in the book of Deuteronomy under
the sabject of exiles, which was the theme of he whole chapter. The conclusion is that now, with the New Covenant made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People, no one needed to be taught how to know or to serve the Lord because the Tanakh had become available to everyone and prophecy had ceased. The payback is that now everyone on an individual basis was responsible for his own sins and would die for is own iniquity. Read Jeremiah 31:30.

Quote:
Do you believe the NT came to be when the Jews left Babylon or when the Jews returned to their homeland in the mid-1900s?
The NT was organized into the Christian Bible in the 4th Century when the Church was established by Constantine as the official religion of the Roman Empire by investing the Church with power of life and death in religious and civic affairs. That's when all kinds of pious forgeries was condoned and blessed by the Church.

Quote:
I grew up hearing about the new covenant in Jesus.I don't follow the Catholic Pope or your opinion of forgery here. Why do you believe it is a forgery?I have never said that he was a Pope. I was talking about the church.
I know about this "new covenant" in Jesus. It never existed. Jesus did not come to establish a new covenant but to confirm what existed
already with the two Houses in one of Jeremiah 31:31. Okay, you don't follow the Catholic Pope, but you can't escape the fact that you would not have a NT today to believe as a Chistian if it were not for the works of the Catholic popes.

Quote:
I said he was a Jewish man who followed the Messiah. These people were called Christians first at Antioch.Well, I didn't want you to say that you believe all of Christianity (belief in Jesus as the Messiah) is Replacement Theology or anti-semitic.
Peter was indeed a Jewish man but he didn't follow the Messiah. The idea that Jesus was Christ the Messiah started about 30 years after Jesus had been gone, in the city of Antioch, by Paul, after a whole year that he spent there preaching about Jesus as Christ. That's when and where Christians started being called Christians for the first time. (Acts 11:26)



   
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Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Lightbulb March 10th, 2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA View Post
Hey Ben Masada,

What is your point.

Are you trying to Prove that JESUS is not the True Messiah.

That is it , isn't it.

JEALOUSY will eat you up guy.

Jesus fulfills all the requirements and offers much more which is beyond
your comprehension.

According to whom, you or Paul? What difference does it make! It is all the same to me. You have only faith, anyways, to make you feel so sure. But remember one thing I am going to tell you, and commit it to memory if you can: Where faith abounds, knowledge moribunds.

Although I am aware that it is impossible to fight against faith, share with me what you mean by requirements that Jesus fulfilled. If I fail to refute it, I might perhaps accept your assertion.



   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
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March 10th, 2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Since Abraham until this very day, circumcision has been used by the Jews rather to honour the Evelasting Word of God. Paul was the one who used the circumcision to violate the Word of God by preaching against the Word of God. Likewise, all his followers who still do the same Pauline job today.
Ben
In Romans 4:11 Paul speaks of the meaning of circumcision.

Shalom,

Jacob





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
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March 10th, 2011, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=Ben Masada;2605374]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post

Believe what you please, but tell me, how many lies do you want me to provide you with, which Paul said, to persuade you that he was a liar? Just let me know and I'll bring them up to you with the appropriate quotations from your NT.
People say Paul was a liar.
Quote:
You mean Jeremiah 31:34 and Deuteonomy 30:11-14? Under the Sinaitic Covenant, we had to be taught by Priests, Levites, Scribes and Prophets how to know God through His laws. First because of our illiteracy; and second because the text was not available to the people but only to the religious elite. However, when a transgression was committed, the whole comunity would have to suffer for the sins of the individual.

During exile in Babylon, due to the fact that the Jews had made the Country several times richer than before, the King had allowed special priviledges to them in compensation for their services to the Country. Some of the priviledges were higher education and freedom enjoyed by preeminent citizens. Then, Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel organized the Scriptures and made them available to all from the least to the greatest, in preparation for the establishment
of the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31.

When the 70 years of exile was over, a small remnant returned to the Land of Israel because the majority had become too rich in Babylon and decided to stay in the Diaspora and help Israel from outside. Where do you think Herod got all the money he needed to build such a sumptious Temple as he built if not from the Babylonian Jews?
I don't know, but I think you are trying to tell me.
Quote:
Now, before you ask about Deuteronomy 30:11-14, that fragment was written by Ezra and inserted in the book of Deuteronomy under the sabject of exiles, which was the theme of he whole chapter.
Interesting.
Quote:
The conclusion is that now, with the New Covenant made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People, no one needed to be taught how to know or to serve the Lord because the Tanakh had become available to everyone and prophecy had ceased. The payback is that now everyone on an individual basis was responsible for his own sins and would die for is own iniquity. Read Jeremiah 31:30.
Reminds me of some from Ezekiel.
Quote:
The NT was organized into the Christian Bible in the 4th Century when the Church was established by Constantine as the official religion of the Roman Empire by investing the Church with power of life and death in religious and civic affairs. That's when all kinds of pious forgeries was condoned and blessed by the Church.

I know about this "new covenant" in Jesus. It never existed. Jesus did not come to establish a new covenant but to confirm what existed
already with the two Houses in one of Jeremiah 31:31. Okay, you don't follow the Catholic Pope, but you can't escape the fact that you would not have a NT today to believe as a Chistian if it were not for the works of the Catholic popes.
I disagree. The writings were found among the assemblies before the Catholic Church came to be.
Quote:
Peter was indeed a Jewish man but he didn't follow the Messiah.
Have you read 1 and 2 Peter?
Quote:
The idea that Jesus was Christ the Messiah started about 30 years after Jesus had been gone, in the city of Antioch, by Paul, after a whole year that he spent there preaching about Jesus as Christ. That's when and where Christians started being called Christians for the first time. (Acts 11:26)
Not quite.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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Lightbulb March 11th, 2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
In Romans 4:11 Paul speaks of the meaning of circumcision.

Shalom,

Jacob

Here, in Romans 4:11, Paul behaves like the bully who, before leaving the scene, applies one more punch in order to feel good.
He never gives up as a loser.



   
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Lightbulb March 11th, 2011, 10:31 AM

[QUOTE=Untellectual;2605487]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
People say Paul was a liar.I don't know, but I think you are trying to tell me.Interesting.Reminds me of some from Ezekiel.I disagree. The writings were found among the assemblies before the Catholic Church came to be.Have you read 1 and 2 Peter?Not quite.

Do you have access to the New American Translation of the Bible, St. Joseph's Edition? That's a Catholic version redacted by a commission
of Bishops, a choice of Catholic Scholars.

Okay, in the preface to the Letters according to Peter, they mention that Peter never wrote those Letters. That they were written by unknown authors and preserved by the Church. That explains why Acts 4:13 reports about Peter and John as illiterate, unlearned and ignorant men. Perter could never have written a book.

And also in the preface to the book of Revelation, they claim that the book was written by several unknown authors. It is also an evidence that John was incapable of writing a book.



   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
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March 11th, 2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Here, in Romans 4:11, Paul behaves like the bully who, before leaving the scene, applies one more punch in order to feel good.
He never gives up as a loser.
You misinterpret him. He is showing the value of circumcision, that it shows he had faith. And other can have faith to.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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Untellectual Untellectual is offline
I Pray That You May Know God's Peace In Your Life
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March 11th, 2011, 01:35 PM

[QUOTE=Ben Masada;2605864]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post

Do you have access to the New American Translation of the Bible, St. Joseph's Edition? That's a Catholic version redacted by a commission
of Bishops, a choice of Catholic Scholars.

Okay, in the preface to the Letters according to Peter, they mention that Peter never wrote those Letters. That they were written by unknown authors and preserved by the Church. That explains why Acts 4:13 reports about Peter and John as illiterate, unlearned and ignorant men. Perter could never have written a book.

And also in the preface to the book of Revelation, they claim that the book was written by several unknown authors. It is also an evidence that John was incapable of writing a book.
You have a lot of thoughts on these matters.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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