Repentance involves mind and will. It is a heart attitude. It is wrong to defend persisting in sin in light of God's holiness and desire to transform us in reality, not just on paper in theory.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
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Originally Posted by graceandpeace
What I am trying to say is that christians do not WANT to sin..period.
Those whom do; have never repented to begin with.
godrulz:
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Have you not read I Corinthians?
Of course I have..what verse denies my statement?
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Some Christians do sin (I Jn.; Rev. 2-3). How do you explain a pastor having an affair?
Yes...we still sin after true repentance...we still sin, for we are saved sinners...this has nothing to do with how many times we must repent; how many times we must be washed; etc..it is ONCE.
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What is true at time x may not be true at time y. Using your logic, a person who divorces or grows to hate a spouse never was married and never loved them to begin with? I find your position untenable and believe it is based on wrong assumptions/conclusions.
A person if a christian would never learn to hate a spouse....we are told to love our enemies...and, it is accomplished by God giving us a heart to do so. How do you explain this:
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
apply that to a spouse...it is the same rule.
1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jo 2:12 ¶ I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
This is knowledge of what grace teaches....as we grow thereby.
Whoa! Now you're opening up a can of worms there my sister. First of all, saying something that a kiss can fix is not the same thing as what I said. Big difference.
Now you're saying that someone who willfully sins a "big" sin and thinks they're saved, is not really saved in the first place? What if they have been "saved" for twenty years? Believed and baptized, a Pastor in a church, had communion, and they do a big sin? Are they still saved? Do they need repentance again?Are there degrees of sin? is breaking one of the ten commandments the same thing as lying, or not loving your brother, or being angry with your brother without just cause, or judging another, or speaking evil of a brother, or getting drunk in excess, or not doing good when you know that you should?
They need to ask for forgiveness and confess their sins to those whom are involved in the sin....(make it right), they do not have to ask God to forgive them of the sin, for all sin has already been forgiven, upon repentance...(salvation).
I am not saying we should not feel sorry for our sins....we do...what I am saying is that we do not have to 'atone' for it; for it has already been atoned.
ONCE for ALL...we do not have to repent, again and again, to atone for sin.
The objective provision for sin is once-for-all (Hebrews). This does not mean the subjective appropriation is not repeated or applied many times as people come to Christ. The right way to deal with sin before and after conversion is to turn from it/cease it (repent) vs persist in it. God expects loving obedience, not rebellious disobedience.
If someone sins, God does not say I died once for it (true) and you only need to turn once from it at conversion (not true if subsequent sins are engaged in). It is not a salvation issue (apart from godless unbelief/apostasy), but a relational one. God does not condone sin in saints because He is holy and it is detrimental to us. The imperatives/exhortations from Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. support an ongoing aspect of walking in the light/Spirit (which is not automatic).
Your view will force you into a wrong sinless perfection view (Christians cannot sin) or that there is no difference between committing adultery and not doing so, murdering and not murdering, etc.
Once-for-all is always in the context of His one finished work on the cross. It is not applied to whether we repent and obey more than once for specific choices. If I ever commit adultery (have not), then I better repent and renew obedience (biblical) instead of rationalizing or justifying that because He died once it does not matter what I do or do not do. Grace as a license to sin is not biblical. Turning from new isolated sin is not a denial of His once-for-all work. It is not the same as initial turning from false gods to the true God (unbelief to faith). It is turning from one sin that is a new factor to get back on track with our walk with God. To not turn is not presume that grace is a license to sin and that God is no longer holy and winks at sin (contrary to explicit Pauline warnings, imperatives, exhortations to not sin, cease to sin, walk upright in the power of the Spirit).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Your view will force you into a wrong sinless perfection view (Christians cannot sin) or that there is no difference between committing adultery and not doing so, murdering and not murdering, etc.
The bible says this is true of a christian. We cannot sin because He keeps the sin from us....sin is not imputed..you know we have argued this before, and I dont care to do it again....it maketh me head hurt...hehe
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Once-for-all is always in the context of His one finished work on the cross. It is not applied to whether we repent and obey more than once for specific choices. If I ever commit adultery (have not), then I better repent and renew obedience (biblical) instead of rationalizing or justifying that because He died once it does not matter what I do or do not do. Grace as a license to sin is not biblical.
I agree, grace is not a license to sin; but likewise, grace does not teach us that; as written...so your point is moot. Grace teaches us to obey; and this is why false types of grace that would teach us to have to repent over and over is also moot. Why people cannot seem to grasp that the holy spirit really does lead us and correct us and keep us from wanting to sin is really hard to understand. IF we sin; it is out of weakness of the flesh; it is NEVER out of wanting to....end of story...and, God simply does not impute 'weakness of the flesh' sin to us...for He died to keep that from occurring. GRACE teaches us this..as we come out of the false mindsets of the world's religious modes......day by day.
Obedience vs disobedience is volitional, not passive/automatic. The Spirit influences, not causes/coerces. We are responsible for our choices that may be consistent with or contrary to the Word/Spirit (hence the exhortations/imperatives in Scripture vs mental assent to a theory divorced from reality).
Would you like a Tylenol?
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Obedience vs disobedience is volitional, not passive/automatic. The Spirit influences, not causes/coerces. We are responsible for our choices that may be consistent with or contrary to the Word/Spirit (hence the exhortations/imperatives in Scripture vs mental assent to a theory divorced from reality).
Would you like a Tylenol?
"obedience"....vs "disobedience"....that is the question. YEP< get me a tylenol.......
I do not hold to perfect obedience; I hold to the obedience of ONE; which is Christ Jesus our Lord.
"obedience"....vs "disobedience"....that is the question. YEP< get me a tylenol.......
I do not hold to perfect obedience; I hold to the obedience of ONE; which is Christ Jesus our Lord.
His grace teaches us to obey........
The bottom line is that we disobey or obey God. He does not do it for us as if we are mere sock puppets. Love and obedience are linked (if you love me, you will obey me).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Did she say God makes us be obedient? No. So i take it that whenever you are disobedient , you have temporarily stopped loving God? If not, why mention it in your argument?
Did she say God makes us be obedient? No. So i take it that whenever you are disobedient , you have temporarily stopped loving God? If not, why mention it in your argument?
Obed. vs disobed. is active vs passive. We are responsible for our choices. Her view does not compute. We should also distinguish one given choice from our overall state/relationship with God. I am not divorced because I have an argument with my spouse.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Did she say God makes us be obedient? No. So i take it that whenever you are disobedient , you have temporarily stopped loving God? If not, why mention it in your argument?
Obed. vs disobed. is active vs passive. We are responsible for our choices. Her view does not compute. We should also distinguish one given choice from our overall state/relationship with God. I am not divorced because I have an argument with my spouse.
howdy brother....it does not compute, because you are not seeing the BIG picture I am trying to paint...that being that there is too much distraction, and you cannot seem to keep focussed..now, focus on this: Jesus is our obedience, according to the word of God. It was never about us; concerning 'justification'..I know you know this, now, remain focussed....sin is not imputed for our 'justification'...agree?
YES.
Justification does not leave us unsaved, EVER...we are saved by justification, alone. Now, as you want to further focus on what occurs because of that; which is .....grace that we are saved by: justification, TEACHES us to obey....it cannot teach us to disobey, see?
When we disobey, it is only due to our weak flesh; which has already been justified..because it can never amount to anything.
Get it? Sanctification is not about 'salvation'...we cannot fall from sanctification, any more than we can fall from being freely justifed.
it maketh me head hurt...hehe
day by day.
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