ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
Reputation:
Open Theism and God's Foreknowledge of the Future -
April 22nd, 2011, 08:55 AM
Why is the God of "open theism" without complete foreknowledge of the future?
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
Slogan/motto:
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
2 Timothy 2:24
Reputation:
April 22nd, 2011, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
Why is the God of "open theism" without complete foreknowledge of the future?
In short, because free will is necessary for authentic loving relationships between God and man and free will is not compatible with exhaustive definite foreknowledge. It also helps to address the problem of evil.
They assert that if God knew everything, then we couldn't act otherwise; it would destroy free will. Another way of saying it: if God knows the future, then we should be Calvinists.
I think that this is wrong. I think that God knows the future precisely because it's the future that we've chosen. Our choices logically are prior to God's knowledge of them. "Existence precedes essence!"
Slogan/motto:
"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
Reputation:
April 22nd, 2011, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by COLA76
In short, because free will is necessary for authentic loving relationships between God and man and free will is not compatible with exhaustive definite foreknowledge. It also helps to address the problem of evil.
Why isn't "free will" compatible with exhaustive definite foreknowledge?
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
Slogan/motto:
"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
Reputation:
April 22nd, 2011, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuySmiley
. . . and it is what God revealed to us about Himself in the Bible.
So, the Biblical God is not omniscient?
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
Slogan/motto:
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
2 Timothy 2:24
Reputation:
April 22nd, 2011, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
Why isn't "free will" compatible with exhaustive definite foreknowledge?
If God foreknows something then nothing than what God knows will happen can happen. In fact, all future events exist is some form of reality. If something other than what God knew would happen happens, then God would be wrong, which is not an acceptable attribute of God. This limits both God's ability to freely interact with creation and also eliminates human ability to choose otherwise.
Complete Foreknowledge is incompatible with freewill since in order for our decisions to be known they must be decided. Naturally, then, if God foreknows our actions then all of our actions must be predetermined.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
Complete Foreknowledge is incompatible with freewill since in order for our decisions to be known they must be decided. Naturally, then, if God foreknows our actions then all of our actions must be predetermined.
I concur. All of our decisions are decided. By us.
Slogan/motto:
"Love separates for the sake of union." - Rumi
Reputation:
April 22nd, 2011, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
They assert that if God knew everything, then we couldn't act otherwise; it would destroy free will. Another way of saying it: if God knows the future, then we should be Calvinists.
Okay. So, if understand you correctly, they believe that God has deliberately chosen to forgo or to limit his omniscience. But even if God did chose to forgo or to limit his foreknowledge, this does not necessarily mean that "we couldn't have acted otherwise." IOW, determinism could still be compatible with with God forgoing or limiting his foreknowledge. However, this would imply blind determinism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
I think that this is wrong. I think that God knows the future precisely because it's the future that we've chosen. Our choices logically are prior to God's knowledge of them. "Existence precedes essence!"
If "our choice are logically prior to God's knowledge of them," then this implies God does not foreknow the future.
Just FYI. "Being precedes existence." Being is not contingent, existence is. But that's enough with the digression.
"The concepts which now prove to be fundamental to our understanding of nature...seem to my mind to be structures of pure thought...the unvierse begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine." - Sir James Jeans
I concur. All of our decisions are decided. By us.
Now the question is: when are they decided? In the past before we were born? Or do we make our decisions in the present? If we make them in the present then God can't have exhaustive foreknowledge.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
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