Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
You missed the point Apple, God created THROUGH Jesus, he performed miracles THROUGH Jesus. Power was given to Jesus by his God. Does that mean that Jesus has deity???? Where do we draw the line of what is Deity?
Open up your mind friend, you and I both have a lot to learn.
Let's look at it another way, pops.
You have already admitted that there are two involved in creation of the Universe.
I know you 'think' that. I'm a teacher, I get this same grandiose delusion from a lot of kids that think exactly this. You'll eventually grow up (or not). No skin off my nose. It all pans out at grade-report time.
Pharisee? You don't even know what/who they are. No it doesn't feel familiar. If you were in my league (and forgive me for the boast), you'd not say such things. They are really amatuer hour at TOL, kinds of posts.
You have shown yourself not much for me even to think about.
You are 1) too worldly with your mouth
2) not too great at English and nowhere near even an inkling of adept at any foreign language (you know, kind of necessary for most of our discussions)
3) pretty much full of teen-angst (whether you should have grown out of it by now or not)
4) have horrible reading comprehension (just thinking of all the times you've simply not gotten it, and quite obviously so)
5) nobody even close to who I'd want to take my godly or spiritual advise 6) unqualified, by Jesus or anybody else you'd care to ask credentials from (He is ashamed of your flesh getting in the way)
7) shall I continue?
You really need to get over yourself. This post is a kindness in acknowledging your pretentious existence in this thread.
I get paid for these kinds of report cards. You don't always get to read your school files but I hope this helps. Give it to your mother/father/grandma and ask them to go over it with you step by step. It'll hurt but you'll be better off for it. You are welcome for my considerable expertise and time that will not be extended to this extent in the future.
In Him
-Lon
Thus the perfect example, You post scripture and I offer a very Hebraic view that not even you or others can counter by your lack of response! So instead of going head to head in a debate over the scripture being discussed. You post about personal issues you have with me. If your "a teacher" then teach! Stop winning about how I make you look in public!
So teacher LON! Tell us how Jesus can have a God? Yep, stop complaining about my style of posting and tell me How Jesus himself teaches you Lon and says to you Lon He has a GOD? Yet you claim he is GOD!
I offer the floor to your teaching... please offer a correction to grandiose delusion from a lot of kids that think exactly this!
TEACH... Teacher Lon...
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
You have already admitted that there are two involved in creation of the Universe.
Why did you decide on two?
I didn't narrow it down to two. My study is a work in progress. How many morning stars are there? We're they also involved in creation? Apple, we might never know. But we do know of two. My mind is open to any information God wants me to have. I have asked you to join me in going into this deep, but your not interested for it might shake your faith. Job talks about morning stars, Revelation tells us Jesus is a morning star. Who or what are the others? Why are they mentioned? Don't you care? Did not God give you a mind to use? Or is the function of your head just to hold a hat?
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am." The Jews then picked up stones to stone Him, not because He was claiming to be "God the Son" but because they recognized that He was claiming to be the I AM that appeared to Moses at the burning bush. The one who appeared to Moses was none other than God Himself
Where you ask me to show where it says God the Father in Scripture: John 6:26 "Labour not for the meat wish perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath GOD THE FATHER sealed."
The Bible DOES teach and refer to God the Father
It does NOT however refer to "God the Son"
Jesus was the Son of God and the Son of man. He was not "God the Son."
Instead, He was the God of the Old Testament revealed in flesh or manifesst in flesh 1Tim. 3:16
In the Old Testament God was the Father and in the New He BECAME the Son and yet never ceased still being what He always was.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are simply different MANIFESTATIONS, of God, not persons.
I didn't narrow it down to two. My study is a work in progress. How many morning stars are there? We're they also involved in creation? Apple, we might never know. But we do know of two. My mind is open to any information God wants me to have. I have asked you to join me in going into this deep, but your not interested for it might shake your faith. Job talks about morning stars, Revelation tells us Jesus is a morning star. Who or what are the others? Why are they mentioned? Don't you care? Did not God give you a mind to use? Or is the function of your head just to hold a hat?
So...if you admit to two, then what is to keep you from admitting to three?
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am." The Jews then picked up stones to stone Him, not because He was claiming to be "God the Son" but because they recognized that He was claiming to be the I AM that appeared to Moses at the burning bush. The one who appeared to Moses was none other than God Himself
Not exactly.
Abraham saw Jesus in the OT…
Your father Abraham leaped for joy that he should see My day, and he saw, and rejoiced.Then the Jews said to Him, You do not yet have fifty years, and have You seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM!
(John 8.56 – 58)
Who did Abraham see?
God the Son, Jesus.
Compare to the OT account to which Jesus refers...
Genesis chapters 18 – 19 comprise the longest Trinitarian proof text in the entire Holy Bible.
• Yahweh appears as ‘three men’ to Abraham (Gen 18.1 – 2)
• Abraham addresses the ‘three men’ as ‘my Lords’ (adonai - plural)
• Abrahams responds… “If I have found favor in your (singular) sight (singular)…” (Gen 18.3)
• “They answered Abraham” indicating that each of the ‘three men’ were Lord (Gen 18.5) (Effectively eliminating the three angels or God and two angels argument)
• Yahweh speaks of Yahweh in the third person (Gen 18.14, 19)
• God the Father remained to talk with Abraham, then returned to Heaven without going to Sodom (Gen 18.33)
• According to the text, there are at least two Yahwehs in Genesis 18 – 19. One Yahweh stated that he would go down to Sodom – and then two of the ‘three men’ went to Sodom (Gen 18.2, 22; 19.12). Abraham remained talking with another Yahweh (Gen 18.21 – 22). Later, Yahweh is described as being in Heaven while Yahweh is mentioned as being in Sodom (Gen 19.24)
• Gen 18 -19 shows us that there was never such a thing as the ‘Majestic Plural’
Quote:
Where you ask me to show where it says God the Father in Scripture: John 6:26 "Labour not for the meat wish perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath GOD THE FATHER sealed."
How does that differ from this...
Titus 2.13
προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου
prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros ēmōn christou iēsou
Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Quote:
The Bible DOES teach and refer to God the Father
It does NOT however refer to "God the Son"
Yes, it does.
Quote:
Jesus was the Son of God and the Son of man. He was not "God the Son."
He was, and He is.
Quote:
Instead, He was the God of the Old Testament revealed in flesh or manifesst in flesh 1Tim. 3:16
As the Son.
Quote:
In the Old Testament God was the Father and in the New He BECAME the Son and yet never ceased still being what He always was.
The Father never became flesh.
However, the Spirit and the Son, did...
Quote:
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are simply different MANIFESTATIONS, of God, not persons.
We must always remember that the apostles were coming out of the Old Testament and into the new and not vise versa. They were Old Testament Jews that simplt believed thst God was absolutely One Deu. 6:4
First, the Hebrew word is "echad" which is from "yachad" which means a plural one.
Second, Paul applied verse 16 to Christ which means that verse 4 applied to Christ (Deuteronomy 6:16; 1 Corinthians 10:9).
Third, Paul said that Christ was the "Rock" that followed them out of Egypt. God said that He was the "Rock" that begat them out of Egypt (1 Corinthians 10:4; Deuteronomy 32:18).
Last edited by Wile E. Coyote; April 6th, 2012 at 02:01 AM.
So...if you admit to two, then what is to keep you from admitting to three?
Answer my question first.
Who were the morning stars that sang together at the creation?
And how many were there?
Stop beating around the bush and tell me. It should be easy for a person of your expertise in theology.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am." The Jews then picked up stones to stone Him, not because He was claiming to be "God the Son" but because they recognized that He was claiming to be the I AM that appeared to Moses at the burning bush. The one who appeared to Moses was none other than God Himself
Where you ask me to show where it says God the Father in Scripture: John 6:26 "Labour not for the meat wish perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath GOD THE FATHER sealed."
The Bible DOES teach and refer to God the Father
It does NOT however refer to "God the Son"
Jesus was the Son of God and the Son of man. He was not "God the Son."
Instead, He was the God of the Old Testament revealed in flesh or manifesst in flesh 1Tim. 3:16
In the Old Testament God was the Father and in the New He BECAME the Son and yet never ceased still being what He always was.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are simply different MANIFESTATIONS, of God, not persons.
God bless
I believe that no man has seen God. But Jesus did in his pre-exsistance, but he was not a man then.
Why would God seal God in John 6:26?
Jesus has a God, why would God need a God?
I think Jesus was much higher than the Angels before he came here.
Some folks think I'm a bit crazy, but I really am a just person with vision. But I need new glasses. Apple7 will tell you that if you do not agree with him, your wrong. And he will prove it using his Greek reading ability.
Peace friend
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
April 5th, 2012, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
Answer my question first.
Who were the morning stars that sang together at the creation?
And how many were there?
Stop beating around the bush and tell me. It should be easy for a person of your expertise in theology.
You only have to research stars, morning stars, sons of God,etc to know what they were, but so far you you just ignore me about it, and not the first time either.
You only have to research stars, morning stars, sons of God,etc to know what they were, but so far you you just ignore me about it, and not the first time either.
You only have to research stars, morning stars, sons of God,etc to know what they were, but so far you you just ignore me about it, and not the first time either.
bye.
LA
Lazy I'm sorry, for some reason I did not see your post. Please forgive me. I do not mean to offend any one.
Why do you say they were sons of God? How many? Were they used in creation? Why is Jesus the only begotton son? Is it because he is firstborn? Are they created?
These are the questions I seek answers to.
I have a mind that will not stop. For years I looked at this and finely put it down for awhile. Now, something or someone is pushing me to get answers.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together,
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
What does this mean?
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Lazy I'm sorry, for some reason I did not see your post. Please forgive me. I do not mean to offend any one.
Why do you say they were sons of God? How many? Were they used in creation? Why is Jesus the only begotton son? Is it because he is firstborn? Are they created?
These are the questions I seek answers to.
I have a mind that will not stop. For years I looked at this and finely put it down for awhile. Now, something or someone is pushing me to get answers.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together,
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
What does this mean?
According to pops-logic, we would also have to include Lucifier as a ‘Morning Star’ (Isa. 14.12).
According to you, then the Morning Star is the devil….thus according to your signature, you are in love with Satan.
Thus the perfect example, You post scripture and I offer a very Hebraic view that not even you or others can counter by your lack of response! So instead of going head to head in a debate over the scripture being discussed. You post about personal issues you have with me. If your "a teacher" then teach! Stop winning about how I make you look in public!
I just 'gave' you the superiority complex link. Did it stop you? Nope, not even a tad. You haven't given me anything -why would you try? did you take Hebrew and Greek to start teaching the class now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierac
So teacher LON! Tell us how Jesus can have a God? Yep, stop complaining about my style of posting and tell me How Jesus himself teaches you Lon and says to you Lon He has a GOD? Yet you claim he is GOD!
Okay, what part of -une, don't you understand? Stop and count to ten or something. The problem is simply this: You are jumping between two apparent contradictions and pitting the ideas against each other instead of grasping them both at the same time. That means it is 'your' problem, in your 'own little head' and 'your own shallow thinking' and not mine at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierac
I offer the floor to your teaching... please offer a correction to grandiose delusion from a lot of kids that think exactly this!
TEACH... Teacher Lon...
Paul
Okay, you are going to miss this I'll give you the bad news first: It is either because you 'can't learn' or that you 'don't want to' that you aren't going to get the answer.
The answer is rather simple:
"...was with and was God." Not only in John 1, not only in Philippians 2, not only in Colossians 1. There are many scriptures that say this about verbatim.
Now, I did not say it would be "easy," I said it would be simple. Here is the question from this simple statement: How can something be with and at the same time be the same thing, at the same time?
Your answer? It can't. Yet God says it not only can, but is, right in front of your eyes, multiple times in scripture.
Now, I said the bad news is you probably won't get that, or admit it.
That means you are either stupid or unwilling, right? No other option.
The good news is you don't 'have' to fall into one of those 2. You get to fail by choice or listen to what is being said.
Clean up your mouth, start apologizing, and learn to listen before you speak (not gonna work, I almost guarantee this whole thing was a waste of both our time).
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
I just 'gave' you the superiority complex link. Did it stop you? Nope, not even a tad. You haven't given me anything -why would you try? did you take Hebrew and Greek to start teaching the class now? 
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