Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
When you take a verse out of context, you are leaving yourself open for misunderstandings...as you have done here. You see the word "man" and don't take the time to read any farther....like down to verse 45 which shows He's from heaven (deity). The man (in yellow) is the one who is LIFE, a quickening spirit, having come from heaven.
Jesus is the Last Adam. Yes, he had a human nature, but it isn't his human nature that allows any of us to look forward to the resurrection of the dead. Deity gives LIFE, not humanity.
1 Cor. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Good news:
5) There are a good number of believers who know thier triune position!
6) There is a wonderful support system on the front-lines
7) Though I have found God triune in scripture, I have been blessed to see other's share some passages in a new light, adding to our view of our Great God and Savior.
8) Demonstrated strength. Our triune God stands. He is worthy of praise, glory, honor, and devotion.
Happy Anniversary to all you who have made this thread your own in celebration of our Triune God.
Kudos to you, brother, for trying to maintain a discussion on a vital and essential element of our faith.
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Yes we will follow the apostolic tradition and worship our Lord Jesus as Lord and God.
Oh the wonder of Immanual "God with us" oh that God would come to be a fellow among us.
Having followed and participated in the debate I see so clearly that all the study and even bible study without the PERSONAL revelation from the Father study is vain. The Pharibums studied the scriptures but when the God of the scriptures appeared among them they took up stones to stone Him.
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Yes we will follow the apostolic tradition and worship our Lord Jesus as Lord and God.
Oh the wonder of Immanual "God with us" oh that God would come to be a fellow among us.
Having followed and participated in the debate I see so clearly that all the study and even bible study without the PERSONAL revelation from the Father study is vain. The Pharibums studied the scriptures but when the God of the scriptures appeared among them they took up stones to stone Him.
And after God dwelt among them...bringing them out of Egypt, leading them by pillar of cloud and fire, feeding them manna in the wilderness, and having them drink from the rock. When He showed up as a servant instead of a "KING", He was rejected.
And, He's still being rejected to this day. God walked among us in the form of a man, and some only see the man. It's sure true that man looks at the outside, but it takes the Spirit of God for us to see it was God inside the flesh.
And after God dwelt among them...bringing them out of Egypt, leading them by pillar of cloud and fire, feeding them manna in the wilderness, and having them drink from the rock. When He showed up as a servant instead of a "KING", He was rejected.
And, He's still being rejected to this day. God walked among us in the form of a man, and some only see the man. It's sure true that man looks at the outside, but it takes the Spirit of God for us to see it was God inside the flesh.
That they only see the man is why they empahsize the Father being IN the Son to the exclusion of the Son being IN the Father. Or they will admit that the Son is IN the Father but will redact it in its meaning.
That they only see the man is why they empahsize the Father being IN the Son to the exclusion of the Son being IN the Father. Or they will admit that the Son is IN the Father but will redact it in its meaning.
Yeah, I see that.
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
And give them a verse like this and they can't even begin to address it.
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
All their murmurings remind me of the Jews who also refused to see.
John 6:41-43
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Spoiler
The two sections of the Confession preceding this one have given us a definition of the essence of God. This section describes the manner in which God exists. Thus we learn
(1) that this one God (as defined) exists in three distinct persons,
(2) that each of these three persons is fully God (not parts of God), and
(3) that these three equal persons have personal distinctions one from the other.
The doctrine of the Trinity is the great stumbling block to the Jew and Muslim. They accuse Christians of worshiping new and different gods from that of Old Testament monotheistic teaching. The question therefore naturally arises, "Is the doctrine of the Trinity revealed in the Old Testament, or is it revealed merely in the New Testament?" Strange as it may seem, it is not exactly correct to say that it is revealed in either. As B. B. Warfield once said, "[i]We cannot speak of the doctrine of the Trinity . . . if we study exactness of speech, as revealed in the New Testament, any more than we can speak of it as revealed in the Old Testament. The Old Testament was written before its revelation; the New Testament after it. The revelation itself was made not in word but in deed. It was made in the incarnation of God the Son, and the outpouring of God the Holy Spirit. The relation of the two Testaments to this revelation is in the one case that of preparation for it, and in the other that of product of it."
God revealed himself by supernatural deeds, along with which he gradually gave more and more verbal interpretation. Only as God's plan of redemption was fully worked out, was God himself fully made known. God could have announced at the very beginning that there were within the unity of his being three distinct persons. But who could have understood? But when, in the fullness of time, each of the three persons actually wrought before the eyes of amen those mighty deeds of redemption which each person of the Godhead was to do in the plan of salvation, who could not understand? Thus in Scripture we have the record of that which God has done, and what he said by way of interpretation. And the proof of the doctrine of the Trinity is supplied in the recorded fact that the Father manifestly is God, that Jesus just as clearly is God, and so also the Holy Spirit.
This is not to say, however, that the God revealed in the Old Testament is other than the Triune God. The God revealed in the Old Testament is fully God (and triune), though not fully revealed in the Old Testament. This being the case, it is inevitable that many things in the Old Testament can be understood only in the light of the (now fully revealed) doctrine of the Trinity. For example, in Genesis 1: 1-3 we discern distinct references to God, God the Spirit, and God the Word. In Genesis 1:26 God takes counsel with himself, and speaks with himself of fashioning man "in Our image." How could this be if God be not three as well as one? In Genesis 11:5, 7 we read that the Lord came down to see the city and tower of Babel, and yet speaking of this says, "Let Us go down."
Again, we discover that a certain "Angel of Jehovah" frequently appeared to the people of God in the Old Testament. He had the appearance of a man (Gen. 32:24) and yet is recognized as being God (Gen. 32:30). This Angel, recognized as being God, is, however, also described as being sent by God (Ex. 23:211-24, 25). The true believer was therefore to acknowledge that this Angel sent by God was God. He had power to "pardon ... transgressions," for God said, "My name is in him" (Ex. 23:21).
Yet, while
(1) the Old Testament believer was to know that the true God was one,
(2) that yet the Angel of God (sent by God) was God also,
(3) there was also a clearly recognized presence of God the Holy Spirit (Ps. 51:11; cf. 1 Sam. 16:13-14) distinct from either "God" or "the Angel."
Thus while the Old Testament believer did not yet see so full a manifestation of the three persons as we have seen (in Christ's becoming incarnate, and the Holy Spirit's being poured out at Pentecost), yet undeniably the God who was being revealed in Old Testament history (little by little) is this God and no other. Because we now know him to be such, these Old Testament accounts make perfectly good sense, which otherwise they would not. There are also, in prophecy, statements which, though perhaps not fully understood at the time (1 Peter 1:10-11), are such as to require the doctrine of the Trinity for their fulfillment. Thus Isaiah tells Israel that the Lord God will give a virgin-born son who will be Immanuel (which means "God with us") (Isa. 7:14). He is also called "the mighty God" (9:6). How could God send God, if there is not a plurality of persons in the divine essence? These are but examples of the fact that while the doctrine of the Trinity is not (fully) revealed in the Old Testament, yet the God who is revealed there (in a partial and preparatory way) is none other than the Triune God.
The New Testament was written after the Trinitarian nature of God had been completely manifested. The apostles became very conscious of the fact that while God remained invisible in the heavens, yet at the same time he stood incarnate before them in the flesh. They saw God (in the flesh) pray to God in heaven. Then when they saw him ascend into heaven, they witnessed the coming of the Holy Spirit. In such passages as Luke 3:22 we even see all three persons simultaneously manifested to the apostles' very senses. Who can speak from heaven but God? Who can command the wind and the waves, change water to wine, and raise the dead, but God? And who can come as a rushing mighty wind to enable weak and sinful amen to speak the wondrous things of God?
So it was that the apostles quite simply had no choice but to recognize that the one living and true God exists in three persons. They were simultaneously confronted with three who were God, and yet with overwhelming conviction they acknowledged these three to he one God. Thus Matthew 28:19, speaking of this one God, says that we are to be baptized "in the name (not names) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew would be guilty of faulty expression if either of two things were true: (1) if the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost did not possess an identical being (tor otherwise he would have said "names"), and (2) if that one being named is not existent in three persons (for otherwise he would not have implied that "the name" is shared by each of the three). If there are not three persons who are God, and if there is more than one God, Matthew speaks incorrectly. But this is impossible to one inspired as he was. As the ancient text reminds us (1 John 5:7), "There are three ... the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." The formulation of our Confession (and similar orthodox creeds) is simply a key which fits all the facts as no other doctrine does or can.
Source: G. I. Williamson. Westminster Confession of Faith: For Study Classes
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.
Three Gods.
Three theism.
Hmmmm!!!!
Unless you show it written it is a blasphemy against the Father the only one true God.
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
That they only see the man is why they empahsize the Father being IN the Son to the exclusion of the Son being IN the Father. Or they will admit that the Son is IN the Father but will redact it in its meaning.
It's time you begin speaking from God's word:
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father...
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Slogan/motto:
Joh 3:16...God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 17:3 ...this is life eternal, that they migh
Reputation:
July 31st, 2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
God walked among us in the form of a man...
The blasphemy against the Father the only one true God must stop:
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Lon's the main man!
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