[The Barbarian]

You need to read Dr. Walt Brown's In The Beginning. The oceans weren't suspended up in the sky, as the book explains.

Yeah, Walt tried to save the story by supposing a whole lot of unscriptural miracles, and a few "scientific miracles" as well.

From a creationist source....

The Pressure Problem. A canopy holding only 40 feet of liquid water, or its equivalent weight of vapor (steam) or ice, would double the earth’s atmospheric pressure—making oxygen and nitrogen toxic to many animals, including humans.6 This is why most vapor canopy theories limit the thickness of water in their canopy to less than 40 feet.

For a vapor canopy holding this amount of water, the high pressure at the canopy’s base would require that the temperature at the base exceed a scorching 220°F. Otherwise, the vapor would condense into a liquid. A vapor canopy whose base had that temperature would radiate large amounts of heat to the earth’s solid surface. People, plants, and animals would absorb so much heat from all directions above that life might not survive.7 Those who believe that a vapor canopy would produce a globally mild climate have overlooked this detail.

And:

A Liquid or Ice Canopy. For liquid or ice particles to remain in space above the earth’s atmosphere, they must orbit the earth. Anything in a near-earth orbit must travel about 17,000 miles per hour (760,000 cm/sec). (As stated earlier, a layer of water only 40 feet thick contains 6.22 × 1021 grams of water.) Just as a spacecraft generates great heat as it reenters the atmosphere, orbiting liquid or ice particles would release all their kinetic energy as heat as they reenter the atmosphere. That amount of heat is faqzz-canopy_calories_from_collapsing_ice.jpg Image Thumbnail

where 2.39 × 10-8 converts the units to calories. This heat would raise the atmosphere’s temperaturefaqzz-canopy_temperature_from_collapsing_ice.jpg Image Thumbnail

Even if a canopy began with the coldest ice possible (absolute zero) or if some heat were transferred elsewhere, insufferable heat would remain.11

A similar problem exists if this ice were part of a spinning shell surrounding the earth. A rapidly-spinning shell, providing enough centrifugal force to balance the gravitational force as much as possible, would still have too much kinetic energy. Once the shell collapsed, that energy would become scalding heat, enough to “roast” all life on earth.

And:

During the last 36 years, the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) has been the best-known advocate of a vapor canopy. In 1998, ICR wrote that a strong greenhouse effect would exist under a vapor canopy, raising “surface temperatures as high as 400°F.” However, if many variables were chosen in the most favorable way for a vapor canopy, “the water content of a canopy could be as much as [no more than] three feet of liquid water without the surface temperature reaching temperatures which would destroy life on the earth.”13 Actually, their study shows that surface temperatures would be unbearable if a canopy were only 4 inches thick.

And:

Final Thoughts. Could there have been a canopy? Perhaps, in one of two ways. First, one could minimize most of these scientific problems by assuming that the canopy was thin, maybe inches thick. The thinner the canopy, the less severe most problems become. (Notice, the support and ultraviolet problems remain.) But what function would the canopy perform, and what hard, scientific evidence—not speculation—is there for claiming that a thin canopy could perform that function? Certainly, a thin canopy would not contribute to a global flood—the reason most people accepted the canopy in the first place.

Second, one could also dismiss each of these scientific problems by saying that God performed a miracle. That may be true. Certainly, He can; He has; and He sometimes does. However, miracles should not be proposed to “prop up” a scientific theory. (Some evolutionists mistakenly believe that this is how creation science works.) As one sees more and more “miracles” required by canopy theories, their plausibility decreases, and the need for an alternate explanation increases.

This is only some of the reasons the canopy won't work. See here:
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ33.html

[Jukia]

Originally Posted by badp

You need to read Dr. Walt Brown's In The Beginning. The oceans weren't suspended up in the sky, as the book explains.

Brown suggests that the Noachian flood waters came from underground caverns erupting releasing the energy of 1,500 trillion H-bombs along the mid ocean ridge. If my calculations are correct that is 3.26 x 10 to the 13th bombs per mile. But he never quite explains how he gets rid of all that energy.

Got any ideas?

[some other dude]

Originally Posted by Jukia

Brown suggests that the Noachian flood waters came from underground caverns erupting releasing the energy of 1,500 trillion H-bombs along the mid ocean ridge. If my calculations are correct that is 3.26 x 10 to the 13th bombs per mile. But he never quite explains how he gets rid of all that energy.

Got any ideas?

Hey - something's got to account for all those fast mutations.

[The Barbarian]

Brown suggests that the Noachian flood waters came from underground caverns erupting releasing the energy of 1,500 trillion H-bombs along the mid ocean ridge. If my calculations are correct that is 3.26 x 10 to the 13th bombs per mile.

He actually wrote that?

[Jukia]

Originally Posted by The Barbarian

He actually wrote that?

I'll try to find it, but I recall reading that in his "Theory".

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by Jukia

Brown suggests that the Noachian flood waters came from underground caverns erupting releasing the energy of 1,500 trillion H-bombs along the mid ocean ridge. If my calculations are correct that is 3.26 x 10 to the 13th bombs per mile. But he never quite explains how he gets rid of all that energy.

Got any ideas?

Doesn't energy try to equalize?

[Jukia]

Originally Posted by Nick M

Doesn't energy try to equalize?

think in terms of the heat from these H-bomb equivilents. How do you expect to "equalize" that? How do you get rid of the heat?

[Jukia]

Originally Posted by The Barbarian

He actually wrote that?

From his on line book
" Many of the Earth’s Previously Unexplained Features Can Be Explained by a Cataclysmic Flood.
The origin of each of the following is a subject of controversy within the earth sciences. Each has many aspects inconsistent with standard explanations. Yet all appear to be consequences of a sudden and unrepeatable event—a cataclysmic flood whose waters erupted from interconnected, worldwide subterranean chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of 1,800 trillion hydrogen bombs. Consequences of this event included the rapid formation of the features listed below. The mechanisms involved are well understood.

103. The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons
104. Mid-Oceanic Ridge
105. Earth’s Major Components
106. Ocean Trenches, Earthquakes, and the Ring of Fire
107. Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
108. Submarine Canyons
109. Coal and Oil
110. Methane Hydrates
111. Ice Age
112. Frozen Mammoths
113. Major Mountain Ranges
114. Overthrusts
115. Volcanoes and Lava
116. Geothermal Heat
117. Strata and Layered Fossils
118. Limestone
119. Metamorphic Rock
120. Plateaus
121. The Moho and Black Smokers
122. Salt Domes
123. Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
124. Changing Axis Tilt
125. Comets
126. Asteroids and Meteoroids
127. Earth’s Radioactivity
For details on the above, see pages 106–365. "

Looks like I underestimated, he claims 1800 trillion, not 1500. I believe I saw a video where he claimed all this energy came through the mid ocean ridge system.

[The Barbarian]

Interesting. Sort of like Stipe, but with the ability to use large words.

[GuySmiley]

Originally Posted by Jukia

From his on line book
" Many of the Earth’s Previously Unexplained Features Can Be Explained by a Cataclysmic Flood.
The origin of each of the following is a subject of controversy within the earth sciences. Each has many aspects inconsistent with standard explanations. Yet all appear to be consequences of a sudden and unrepeatable event—a cataclysmic flood whose waters erupted from interconnected, worldwide subterranean chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of 1,800 trillion hydrogen bombs. Consequences of this event included the rapid formation of the features listed below. The mechanisms involved are well understood.
. . .
Looks like I underestimated, he claims 1800 trillion, not 1500. I believe I saw a video where he claimed all this energy came through the mid ocean ridge system.

He also says

4. A 1-megaton hydrogen bomb releases 4.184 × 10^22 ergs of energy. Therefore, the release of 1.7 × 10^37 ergs is the equivalent of exploding 400 trillion hydrogen bombs! However, most of the energy in the subterranean water was generated continually over many weeks (not one big explosion) and was focused up through the rupture and expelled into space. Comets, asteroids, irregular moons, and meteoroids have great kinetic and potential energy.

Which is a note that comes from this initial explanation

How Much Energy?
A small part of the nuclear energy absorbed by the subterranean water can be calculated. Our oceans have 1.43 × 10^24 grams of water. For every 18 grams of water (1 mole)85 there are 6.022 × 10^23 (Avogadro’s number)85 water molecules—each with 2 hydrogen atoms. One out of every 6,400 hydrogen atoms in our oceans is heavy hydrogen (2H or deuterium). Each fast neutron thermalized by water delivers at least 1 MeV of kinetic energy.85 (1 MeV = 1.602 × 10-6 erg)85 A hydrogen atom (1H) that absorbs a fast neutron releases 2.225 MeV of binding energy and becomes deuterium. So, assuming earth had no significant amount of deuterium before the flood, the amount of nuclear energy that was added to the subterranean water over several weeks, just in forming deuterium, was:

(equation wouldn't copy)

This is the energy that would be released by 1,800 trillion 1-megaton hydrogen bombs!86 [See Endnote 4 on page 491.] The crust became an earth-size nuclear engine during the several weeks when this energy was being generated. This is a conservative estimate of the nuclear energy added to the subterranean water, because other products of nuclear fission and decay would have added additional energy, and some water was expelled permanently from earth. Energy was also required to form radioisotopes and, in effect, “lift” them high above the floor of the valley of stability.

The above shows why so much deuterium was in the subterranean chamber. The solar system and stars contain relatively little deuterium—a fragile isotope—while comets and asteroids contain a relatively large amount of deuterium. [See page 275.] The comet chapter, pages 268–298, explains why the water in comets came from the subterranean chamber.

[some other dude]

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by Jukia

think in terms of the heat from these H-bomb equivilents. How do you expect to "equalize" that? How do you get rid of the heat?

Heat especially is what I was thinking of. It moves from hot to cold. You and your fake science aptitued. When you are in a corner, you say something stupid like this.

The heat pushed some of the water into the upper atmosphere and into outerspace. And moved the continents. It took treamendous energy to do it.

[The Barbarian]

The friction generated by moving entire continents at those rates would generate enough heat to boil the oceans.

All that energy would have to be released into the seas and atmosphere. Ejection of that much water at escape velocity (about seven miles a second) would incinerate the earth.

None of this can be reconciled with reality, unless you want to invent scores of new miracles.

But once you let magic solve your problems, then anything is possible.

[some other dude]

Originally Posted by The Barbarian

The friction generated by moving entire continents at those rates would generate enough heat to boil the oceans.

All that energy would have to be released into the seas and atmosphere. Ejection of that much water at escape velocity (about seven miles a second) would incinerate the earth.

None of this can be reconciled with reality, unless you want to invent scores of new miracles.

But once you let magic solve your problems, then anything is possible.

Magic, like a dead man coming back to life?

Oh that's right. You don't believe in a literal resurrection. It's a "parable."

[The Barbarian]

Magic, like a dead man coming back to life?

Magic, like making up non-scriptural miracles to solve problems with your ideas.

Oh that's right. You don't believe in a literal resurrection. It's a "parable."

I see you haven't learned that lying isn't a Christian trait. As you know from our previous exchanges, I assert that the Resurrection is a fact. This is why you have the reputation you do, here.

Oh, that's right. You think that you can sin against God all you want, and He'll have to save you because you have "faith." Carry on.