[jeneve]

Originally Posted by DaveDodo007

Said 'no', provide evidence for then 'yes.'

Ok then. my answer would be that God will not let that happen. Seeing as how your beliefs and mine are different, you will undoubtibly disagree.

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God does not provide special revelation outside of his Word now that the foundation of our faith is laid in it by the prophets and apostles in His Word. Furthermore, God has told us not to seek "signs and wonders."

Rather than seeking the Lord to give us direct revelation, we should be content with God’s provision in His word (our only infallible rule of practice and faith) to guide us as to what is his will for our lives, what He commands us and expects of us concerning Him, and to know how great the love of Christ is to us.

Murray writes in The Guidance of the Holy Spirit:

“The moment we desire or expect or think that a state of our consciousness is the effect of a direct intimation of us of the Holy Spirit’s will, or consists in such an intimation and is therefore in the category of special direction from him, then we have given way to the notion of special, direct, detached communication from the Holy Spirit. And this, in respect of its nature, belongs to the same category as belief in special revelation.

AMR

[John Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

God does not provide special revelation outside of his Word now that the foundation of our faith is laid in it by the prophets and apostles in His Word.

This pronouncement is the result of a system of belief that you have chosen to accept. It is not binding on any other individual.

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

Furthermore, God has told us not to seek "signs and wonders."

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

Signs and wonders are outer things. What about inner revelation?
Revelation must have an inner receiving consciousness for it to be revelation. Whatever the outer manifestation that may be called "revelation" - it only becomes revelation when it is received inwardly. True revelation is not ultimately something objective, though it will be induced by objects of one kind or another.

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

Rather than seeking the Lord to give us direct revelation, we should be content with God’s provision in His word (our only infallible rule of practice and faith) to guide us as to what is his will for our lives, what He commands us and expects of us concerning Him, and to know how great the love of Christ is to us.

Again - you have have chosen this and it is not binding on anyone else.

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

Murray writes in The Guidance of the Holy Spirit:

“The moment we desire or expect or think that a state of our consciousness is the effect of a direct intimation of us of the Holy Spirit’s will, or consists in such an intimation and is therefore in the category of special direction from him, then we have given way to the notion of special, direct, detached communication from the Holy Spirit. And this, in respect of its nature, belongs to the same category as belief in special revelation.

AMR

Is the desire for direct communication from the Holy Spirit somehow wrong then?

[Refractive]

Originally Posted by DaveDodo007

None as they don't exist, though feel free to show me where the natural 'laws' have been abrogated and I'm sure to look it up.

This is what you said:

It's not a matter of denying anything as I have not seen any evidence to the contrary.

So, to be sure I understand. When I ask this:

BTW - what evidence of the supernatural have you examined and do you mind telling me how you define a "supernatural" event or occurence?

Your response is: if I haven't yet had a chance encounter with evidence of something, I choose to believe it does not exist even if others say that it does.

And I presume from this:

show me where the natural 'laws' have been abrogated

An event that abrogates natural "laws" is your definition of the supernatural? Is there a list of the "laws?" I won't know if something has abrogated them unless I know what they are.

[Refractive]

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion

[font=Verdana]God does not provide special revelation outside of his Word now that the foundation of our faith is laid in it by the prophets and apostles in His Word.

What do you mean by "special revelation?" I'm just not sure what you are saying doesn't happen.

[raweya]

So... I have some more questions. What if this man has truly been sent by God to reveal God's word for our time?

Jesus was denied and vehemently opposed when he was alive. Many people maligned and denied him. He was ultimately crucified for his statements. But there were some who somehow knew he spoke the truth.

Would it be arrogant to say that God could not send another messenger into the world? Is it really possible to say what God can and cannot do?

I suppose there are many people who believe that a new prophet cannot come into the world, that God said everything God is ever going to say to humanity centuries ago.

So God has nothing more to say to humanity?
What God gave centuries ago is sufficient forever and ever?

[Refractive]

Originally Posted by raweya

What God gave centuries ago is sufficient forever and ever?

The short answer is "yes."

But - God has sent us more information specific to our times. Here's a thread about an ongoing message from God through Mary to the world.

You may say I only believe this because I am Catholic. But what I have found from researching all sorts of apparitions and supposed apparitions is:

1) True apparitions are always accompanied by visible signs of supernatural presence that can be experienced by others directly.

2) God doesn't send people to interpolate - those who receive messages just quote the apparition, whether Jesus or Mary or some Native American ancestor.

3) With prophecy, something verifiable will happen, and right away if the main prophecy is set in the future. For instance, at Fatima Mary gave three prophecies, they have all come to pass over the years. But, she also gave the dates of her returns and said there would be signs and they would be visible and they were.

4) No seer or visionary I ever found credible, including nonChristian ones, ever claimed they, themselves, were prophets. Ever.

When this thread appeared I went right away to see what his story is, because I certainly would never dismiss out of hand that someone might have information directly from God.

It was SOSO cow dung to me. Maybe you will like it better. Go run it down and make his case if you think he is the genuine article. But if God doesn't validate him, why would I just take his word for anything?

Jesus performed great works so that we would know where He came from. What's this guy done besides make a website and a bunch of YouTube videos and gone around to forums under fake names pretending to be a fan of himself?

[Yazichestvo]

Originally Posted by raweya

So... I have some more questions. What if this man has truly been sent by God to reveal God's word for our time?

Jesus was denied and vehemently opposed when he was alive. Many people maligned and denied him. He was ultimately crucified for his statements. But there were some who somehow knew he spoke the truth.

Would it be arrogant to say that God could not send another messenger into the world? Is it really possible to say what God can and cannot do?

I suppose there are many people who believe that a new prophet cannot come into the world, that God said everything God is ever going to say to humanity centuries ago.

So God has nothing more to say to humanity?
What God gave centuries ago is sufficient forever and ever?

You know, I was about to say, this sounds a lot like how Christianity was started and supplanted Judaism. Everyone is resistant to new ideas, yet in hindsight, many Christians now accept Christianity's new ideas as though they had always been the norm. In the cases of both Christ and this new modern "prophet", I am skeptical of anyone claiming to have found the new revelation. I don't see why the truth should ever change, at least not in a fundamental way.

It's very honest and open minded of you to compare them however.

[Refractive]

This is an excerpt from a Westword newspaper story out of Denver. They take a neutral stance.

Those of you who think Sunday, February 6, is all about the Super Bowl matchup between the Packers and the Steelers are sadly misinformed. According to Joyce Johnson, spokeswoman for the Boulder-based Society for the New Message from God, the real news on that day involves the latest message delivered to Marshall Vian Summers by the Creator of All That is Seen and Unseen.

Smell a moneymaking scam? Before the subject is raised, Johnson, an acolyte who's known Summers for sixteen years, volunteers her defense.

"Marshall has been receiving this new message from God for over 25 years, and he is a gentleman of exceptional integrity. He is certainly not in this to make money. His whole purpose in doing this is to bring a new message from God into the world and present it to the world, because of humanity's dire need at this time."

Yes, Johnson notes that books related to the new message are for sale on Summers-related websites, including GreatWavesofChange.org. But, she adds, "on two of our sites, NewMessage.org and AlliesofHumanity.org, two of the major books of the revelation are offered online for free: one about the heart of the spirituality of this new revelation, and also a complete book about the extraterrestrial presence in the world today. And why would someone offer a book for free if they can sell it? To get the message into the world."

My answer to the bolded question is: because they can't sell it and are trying to create some buzz for the other books they hope they can sell.

Really, if the extraterrestrial thing appeals, go read the free books.

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Originally Posted by Refractive

What do you mean by "special revelation?" I'm just not sure what you are saying doesn't happen.

There are no more prophets receiving direct communication from God. These sort of gifts have ceased. Please see the link included in my post to which you have responded.

Special revelation is God's communication to man in Holy Writ. No more special revelation is forthcoming. I am not saying we are not illuminated by the indwelling Spirit, but that illumination will not be contrary to what we have been given in God's special revelation, including the fact that no more special revelation is forthcoming. That last bit is important, as many, such as Pentecostals, will argue their message from God is in accord with Scripture. But Scripture is clear that God has spoken and is finished speaking. So the Pentecostal claim, or claims of others along these lines, is self-refuting.

I become very worried when people start saying, "the Lord spoke to me today" or "I don't do anything unless the Lord tells me to do it", etc., as if God is actually directly speaking to someone. God does not provide special revelation outside of his Word now that the foundation of our faith is laid in it by the prophets and apostles in His Word.

J. Packer's book, Finding God's Will, is a short read full of useful guidance.

I think it begins by fully integrating God's will into every aspect of our lives. This comes from a thorough understanding of the Scriptures, so we can obey what God has already commanded us to do and how to live (praxis), see Proverbs 6:22. This walk of sanctification increases our God-given common sense, too, so that we should not be calling upon the Lord for every little decision in our lives. Studying the Scriptures helps us to know what God thinks about a myriad of topics, so we should have the answers to many important questions in front of us. This way God's will is often so clear that only obedience, and not guidance is necessary.

We also have to be willing to do what God says to do. Sometimes a person already has an answer in mind and is unwilling to accept any other when seeking God's guidance. And guide us He will: Psalms 25:12, 32:8, Proverbs 3:6, Isaiah 58:11, Colossians 1:9.

It should go without saying that we must very specifically ask, with a readiness to obey, for guidance when we need it (James 1:58). Accompany this with trusting God in the matter (Phil. 4:6,7), keeping a watch out for guidance in your daily devotionals, and seeking the counsel of the brothers and sisters in Christ (Proverbs 11:14).

The tricky part, if you will, is discerning the answer. We have to understand that Guide is guiding us in our decision making processes, that what we are discovering as we work out things is not mere accident. I think Acts 17:16 offers an answer:

"Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols."

AMR

[Knee V]

Originally Posted by raweya

So... I have some more questions. What if this man has truly been sent by God to reveal God's word for our time?

Jesus was denied and vehemently opposed when he was alive. Many people maligned and denied him. He was ultimately crucified for his statements. But there were some who somehow knew he spoke the truth.

Would it be arrogant to say that God could not send another messenger into the world? Is it really possible to say what God can and cannot do?

I suppose there are many people who believe that a new prophet cannot come into the world, that God said everything God is ever going to say to humanity centuries ago.

So God has nothing more to say to humanity?
What God gave centuries ago is sufficient forever and ever?

I disagree with the premise behind what you've said here.

God's revelation to mankind is not about "things", and "messages", and "information". That is not God's revelation. God's revelation to mankind is HIMSELF. The fulness of His revelation was alluded to and hinted at in the Old Testament through the prophets. God revealed a little about Who He is and His character, but had not truly revealed Himself. That came with the Incarnation of the Word.

Christ is both the Revealer and the Revelation. It's not that Christ taught us a "message" per se. Christ showed us HIMSELF and taught us how we can know Him. THAT is God's revelation.

What more do we need? We have God Himself in His fulness. We don't need more allusions and foreshadowings. We have the full revelation, which is God Himself. There is no more "message" that we need, for that has never been the issue; that has never been what God's revelation IS.

[unknown]

So, I still haven't read what the "message" is or what's new about it. Can anyone enlighten me?

[chair]

Now what would you say if this modern day not only had disciples (which he apparently has), but the disciples started claiming that he had done miracles? Like curing the sick, making the blind see, driving out demons? What then?

And what if in the community of believers there was a rumor that he had brought a dead person back to life?

What then?

[Barakah]

Originally Posted by unknown

So, I still haven't read what the "message" is or what's new about it. Can anyone enlighten me?

Here's one person's take on what the New Message from God is. I mostly got all this from the New Message Wiki. greatercommunity.org/wiki

The New Message from God is approximately 900 revelations spoken to Marshall Vian Summers by the Angels of God, just as Gabriel spoke to Muhammad on behalf of God, and the bush to Moses.

The New Message teaches:
1. Human civilization faces collapse as a result of environmental degradation and destabilization.
2. Extraterrestrial forces are attempting to subvert human freedom and self-rule in order to exploit the Earth's resources and humanity's labor.
3. Enough people must re-ignite their connection to God within their hearts, to clarify perception and decision-making, and to develop the skills needed to survive and thrive given the environmental and extraterrestrial threats.

The New Message from God is an infusion of holy spirit into the world, which has not seen a Messenger of God in 1300 years. This is a renewal and a refreshing for the world's religions.

The New Message from God is a preparation and training in developing people's connection to God, our deepest conscience, our deepest love, our deepest knowledge, and our God-given purpose.

The New Message from God has been published as books, CDs, pamphlets and podcasts, many of which are available for free online and in multiple languages.

[Stripe]

That dude's name backwards is Hakarab.