[godrulz]

Originally Posted by Damian

Does God see anything as past or future relative to his frame of reference?

God does not actually see the parting of the Dead Sea as present reality since it is a past event that no longer exists. He knows it perfectly in memory, but does not eternally see it (Jesus is not still on the cross in His mind and He does not still see Hitler on earth). The future is anticipatory, not yet. God does not see it as actually existing now because it does not exist in reality and He only knows reality as it is. He can project in His mind what the Second Coming will look like, but that does not mean it actually exists in reality yet. He sees now/present as it is. He knows that 2012 will be future, but does not know every detail of how it will unfold. He knows that 1985 is past and has perfect recall of every detail, but the events of that year are not actually ongoing in a parallel universe (does not compute except in science fiction).

[godrulz]

Originally Posted by Damian

I accept that you believe God's "thought-processing" capacity is finite.

No it is not. He can do what no computer can do. There is no limit to His knowledge, intelligence, thinking ability. He can multi-task, has perfect memory of the past, perfect awareness of every second of the present, and thinking ability to plan, anticipate, predict, cause much of the future. He has not fixed my date of death, but He may have fixed the date of the Second Coming (but not necessarily; much of the future is yet open, unsettled, dependent on a myriad of contingent factors that the Sovereign God is not controlling, though He could, but at the expense of our self-determination; hence God is not responsible for heinous evil).

[GuySmiley]

Originally Posted by Damian

No, I believe God's mind is infinite. I believe open theism renders God's mind finite. (No shorthand employed.)

The only compelling reason why an infinite mind would want to take "time to think about something" is because that mind wanted to experience what it is like to be a finite mind.

So your thread is nonsense. God experiencing time doesnt mean Open Theism makes God finite. Ok.

And btw, nothing about Open Theism says God takes time to think. His thought process could be instantaneous, but He is patient and waits to act.

[godrulz]

Originally Posted by Damian

I definitely believe the Course is more inspired than the Bible. But I do not believe that it is inerrant or infallible (that's a doctrine that is completely unintelligible to me). That being said, this should not be misconstrued to mean that I hold the Bible to be of no spiritual value whatsoever.

Why do I debate here? Because this is the "Religion" forum, not the "Exclusively Christian Theology" forum. I don't believe I have violated any of TOL's terms of service. If it offends you that I do not hold the Bible to be authoritative or that I am challenging your theological positon, then I suggest you go to the "Exclusively Christian Theology."

ACIM is channeled from a demon. It is a mix of mostly error with slight truth. The Bible is the Word of God, inspired, infallible.

Many of these issues are philosophical, logical vs explicitly biblical.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Nick M

And I accept that you are an idiot.

I'm simply a mirror in which you see an image of yourself.

[GuySmiley]

Originally Posted by Damian

I'm simply a mirror in which you see an image of yourself.

We used to say that a different way

"Im rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you."

[godrulz]

The conversation that God had with Adam, Moses, Satan objectively took time. The fact that it takes me a moment to dialogue with someone does not mean I am limited, per se. The past conversations do not negate the lack of limitation on God. Do you want us to say that Jesus talking to the woman at the well was co-temporaneous with God's conversations with Moses centuries earlier? Would this make God infinite vs finite?

You are too philosophical for your own good and reject self-evident common sense to spin your tires with incoherent concepts. This is why thinking biblically/logically trumps pious platitudes of a cultic manual that lacks veracity and coherence (but sounds lofty to those who don't think critically).

[Damian]

Originally Posted by COLA76

He remembers the past (past in reference to the present that we as creation are experiencing), but does not "see" the past or future because neither exists in reality. God does "know" the future as possibilities, but not as reality.

Several questions:

1) Is God's memory infinitely perfect? If so, then why doesn't he experience the past as present?

2) Did God experience temporality before the creation?

3) Why does it take "time" for God to process his thoughts if he is endowed with infinite mental capacity? (This is actually the point I raised in the OP.)

[Damian]

Originally Posted by GuySmiley

We used to say that a different way

"Im rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you."

That will work too.

[John Mortimer]

Originally Posted by godrulz

God is omnipotent, yet He cannot create square circles

Yes He can - by creating other worlds of form. The world of form that we are accustomed to is built upon certain rules, other worlds of form are possible built upon different rules. Even in this world of form non-Euclidean geometry & higher dimensional analysis points to this.

Originally Posted by godrulz

or married bachelors.

Trivial semantics.

Originally Posted by godrulz

God is omniscient, yet He cannot have exhaustive definite foreknowledge if the future includes free will contingencies affected by other agents apart from Himself that are not deterministic.

There is no real future or real past. The "past" and the "future" are always experienced, i.e. remembered, anticipated or imagined in the now.

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Damian

Several questions:

1) Is God's memory infinitely perfect? If so, then why doesn't he experience the past as present?

Because He is not insane and is able to know the difference between memories and current events.

2) Did God experience temporality before the creation?

The creation refers to the time when God created the physical universe. Other non-physical things existed prior to the creation of the physical universe, so there is no problem believing that God experienced the passage of time prior to the creation of the physical universe.

3) Why does it take "time" for God to process his thoughts if he is endowed with infinite mental capacity? (This is actually the point I raised in the OP.)

You didn't read my earlier post that explained that?

[godrulz]

Originally Posted by Damian

Several questions:

1) Is God's memory infinitely perfect? If so, then why doesn't he experience the past as present?

2) Did God experience temporality before the creation?

3) Why does it take "time" for God to process his thoughts if he is endowed with infinite mental capacity? (This is actually the point I raised in the OP.)

God has exhaustive memory/knowledge of the past and can recall everything (we can remember some vs all things). This does not mean the past is still existing or that Jesus is still on the cross or that Adam is still in the Garden vs dead (or that Elvis/Hitler is still alive). It is fresh vs actual to Him (unlike us).

God experienced divine temporality in His triune relations before material creation. The Father/Son/Spirit thought, acted, felt duratively before there were clocks to mark it.

God can contemplate, calculate, think, etc. His intelligence and knowledge is without limit, but creation/reality has inherent limitations. Timelessness is no more infinite than endless time would be.

The issue is what is divine and human reality. You are trying to beg the question by assuming what you are trying to prove.

You are not being reasonable so it is hard to reason with you.

[COLA76]

Originally Posted by Damian

No, I believe God's mind is infinite. I believe open theism renders God's mind finite. (No shorthand employed.)

The only compelling reason why an infinite mind would want to take "time to think about something" is because that mind wanted to experience what it is like to be a finite mind.

Even an infinite mind can only know (in the truest meaning of the word) what actually exists. Since time is sequential, God processes information as it happens. His will also must manifest in a sequential way if it is to be meaningful in a sequential creation. This doesn't mean that God's mind is finite. It simply means that his creation is finite.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

From this remark and the posts that followed it, it appears that you have no understanding of God, infinite, and finite.


No Open Theist will disagree with this passage:




No Open Theist will claim that God's thought processes are comprehensible by any human. That means that every Open Theist believes that God's thought processes are infinite (unmeasurable).

God can proccess a humanly unmeasurable amount of information in a humanly unmeasurably small amount of time, making God's mind effectively infinite in capacity and effectively instantaneous in operation by any stretch of human imagination.

That is different than what you are trying to do, which is make God's mind unlimited in capacity and without duration in operation. But, since the amount of information that God processes has not reached the capacity of God's mind for processing information and since the speed of God's mind is faster at processing than the fastest physical phenomena (speed of light), then the point you are trying to make is meaningless.

I disagree. It would appear that you are the one who cannot distinguish between the "finite" and the "infinite." Something can be "finite" and yet "humanly unmeasurable." Something that is "effectively infinite" is actually finite. And something that is "effectively instantaneous" is actually not.

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Damian

I disagree. It would appear that you are the one who cannot distinguish between the "finite" and the "infinite." Something can be "finite" and yet "humanly unmeasurable." Something that is "effectively infinite" is actually finite. And something that is "effectively instantaneous" is actually not.

Your philosophy is getting in the way of your common sense.

Finite and infinite are related to the attribute of measurability.

fi·nite   
adjective
1. having bounds or limits; not infinite; measurable.

in·fi·nite
adjective
1. immeasurably great: an infinite capacity for forgiveness.

im·meas·ur·a·ble 
adjective
incapable of being measured; limitless: the immeasurable vastness of the universe.

Do you believe the universe is limitless, or just incapable of being measured?

What would you use to measure the amount of information God is capable of processing? What would you use to measure the speed of God's thoughts?

The amount of information God is capable of processing is not measurable, nor is the speed of His thoughts. That does not mean there is no limit to either, just that the limits of God's thought capacity are beyond our ability to measure and beyond the ability of the universe to exceed, making God's thought capacity effectively infinite.