Question about John 1:1, that trinitarians have yet to answer with scripture - Page 49 - Theology Online

Bright Raven · January 21st, 2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothead

Why would verbal confession not be a work? Even if one which seems to be less than a minute or so of 'striving?'

The man on the cross worked out his faith. He asked Jesus to remember him. He didn't work much.

But his work was required of him in order to go to the kingdom.

He was not saved technically by the work.

He had to have had the faith first. The catalyst which moved the work in inspiration all the way to completion.

To each their own!

nothead · January 21st, 2012, 06:54 PM

Whoa Bright Bird!

You must agree with me then!

One In Christ · January 21st, 2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

To each their own!

Do you not agree? It IS a work, it is the resulting work of one that has been saved. It's not required for salvation.

Bright Raven · January 21st, 2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofadoo

Do you not agree? It IS a work, it is the resulting work of one that has been saved. It's not required for salvation.

I'm not convinced. For you and others, if confessing is a work, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is incorrect. Works are required for salvation. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

nothead · January 21st, 2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofadoo

Do you not agree? It IS a work, it is the resulting work of one that has been saved. It's not required for salvation.

Hoof you had me nodding nodding

until the last line.

Man the verbal confession on the cross by the criminal WAS required. If he didna do it, he wouldna got the
apple pie!

One In Christ · January 21st, 2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

I'm not convinced. For you and others, if confessing is a work, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is incorrect. Works are required for salvation. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I just said its not required for salvation. Romans 10:9 makes this generalization, however, Romans 10:10, breaks it down and states that its the belief that Justifies, and the confession is just displaying that you are saved (not saving you).

Bright Raven · January 21st, 2012, 07:11 PM

If speaking/confessing is a work, then a Jew can't speak on the Sabbath, correct?

nothead · January 21st, 2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

I'm not convinced. For you and others, if confessing is a work, then Ephesians 2:8-9 is incorrect. Works are required for salvation. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

All that verse was saying, is that the old covenant could not definitively be concluded by man as a way to the kingdom.

That is to say, the first command could not be done. To love your God with all of your heart soul and might.

Or any of the lesser commands in total, in perfection.

And God required by the first covenant, perfection.

We still must WORK OUT our salvation with fear and trembling.

Bright, you have your AofG theology hindering you now...

They really don't have the whole picture from the Jewish perspective.

Being in covenant is still to present your works at the judgement seat. And you WILL fall short. And YOU WILL still need grace to complete your lack.

But heed this: your works will be presented before all. Still.

nothead · January 21st, 2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

If speaking/confessing is a work, then a Jew can't speak on the Sabbath, correct?

Now you are getting technical. You and Heretic should go into business together.

Sounding like a ding danged lawyer.

If confessing the Word is NOT a work then you better stop paying your preacher men for preaching...

One In Christ · January 21st, 2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

If speaking/confessing is a work, then a Jew can't speak on the Sabbath, correct?

Does a Jew hold the Law perfectly?

Im not sure of the answer here, but my explanation harmonizes with Ephesians 2:8-9... Whats the problem?

Bright Raven · January 21st, 2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothead

All that verse was saying, is that the old covenant could not definitively be concluded by man as a way to the kingdom.

That is to say, the first command could not be done. To love your God with all of your heart soul and might.

Or any of the lesser commands in total, in perfection.

And God required by the first covenant, perfection.

We still must WORK OUT our salvation with fear and trembling.

Bright, you have your AofG theology hindering you now...

They really don't have the whole picture from the Jewish perspective.

Being in covenant is still to present your works at the judgement seat. And you WILL fall short. And YOU WILL still need grace to complete your lack.

But heed this: your works will be presented before all. Still.

First, my theology is eclectic. Presbyterianism, Catholicism, Christian Missionary and Alliance, AoG to name a few have had an impact on my theology. I believe in Shema also in the fact of sanctification and yep, we will all stand before that judgement seat. I won't get by on any works I have done but only on that which Jesus has done in my place.

Bright Raven · January 21st, 2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Does a Jew hold the Law perfectly?

Of course not. I believe that semantics is the difference in what we are saying for I sort of think what we are saying the same thing.

nothead · January 21st, 2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

First, my theology is eclectic. Presbyterianism, Catholicism, Christian Missionary and Alliance, AoG to name a few have had an impact on my theology. I believe in Shema also in the fact of sanctification and yep, we will all stand before that judgement seat. I won't get by on any works I have done but only on that which Jesus has done in my place.

What Jesus has done in your place is in your heart given you a new
circumcised heart.

To do and will Shema.

And you will work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Unlike the Country Club Churches who call themselves cutting edge.

IF the man on the cross was miraculously cut down and saved (temporally)

he would know what you know from your spirit baptism...

And he with a new heart would have done the same...

Shema. No more. No less.

godrulz · January 21st, 2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoofadoo

Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel. (Grace + Works)

We have the Grace Gospel of Paul (Grace + nothing)

Peter did not preach works as a condition of salvation post-cross! Boo MAD. Even the OT was grace/faith based (Rom. 4-5).

Cruciform · January 23rd, 2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Oh my gosh! I'm all ready at odds with oatmeal in that He is a non-trinitarian and I'm trinitarian. Now I will call you a FALSE WITNESS in that I have repeatedly posted that VERBAL CONFESSION IS NOT A WORK. In saying that it is you present a FALSE GOSPEL.

I never said it was, rather that oatmeal's statement says it is. My question is whether or not you agree with him.

Quote:

You also present one that is contradicts itself in saying that Paul presents a Gospel of grace and works which is totally untrue and heretical.

So you keep parroting from your preferred Protestant tradition...

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+