ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 07:05 AM
Paul is writing to those who simply believe in Christ, that they might be justified by the faith (and works) of Christ. It is about imputation of HIS righteousness.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Salvation by Grace through the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.
James is writing to those who are to have a faith (and works) just like Jesus Christ had. It's about being just as righteous as HE was.
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Faith + works unto Grace and salvation.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Every word in the Bible is absolutely true and inerrant in the sense in which it was meant when it was written. Truth does not contradict truth. James and Paul are both in the Bible. Therefore, they do not contradict each other. QED.
When a Man Lies He Murders
Some Part of the World
These Are the Pale Deaths Which
Men Miscall Their Lives
All this I Cannot Bear
to Witness Any Longer
Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation
Take Me Home
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
So you underlined "have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory", as if to suggest that James was telling his readers not to have faith?
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos
So you underlined "have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory", as if to suggest that James was telling his readers not to have faith?
No, they had it, they were not to have it with respect to persons.
The point is that they had the same kind of faith that he had.
I don't.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Paul is writing to those who simply believe in Christ, that they might be justified by the faith (and works) of Christ. It is about imputation of HIS righteousness.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Salvation by Grace through the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.
None of which contradicts what James said (compare James 2:12 with Galatians 5:13-14).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulToPaul
James is writing to those who are to have a faith (and works) just like Jesus Christ had. It's about being just as righteous as HE was.
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Faith + works unto Grace and salvation.
None of which contradicts what Paul said (e.g., Titus 1:16, 1 Timothy 6:18–19, Galatians 5:13).
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos
Did Paul have it with respect to persons?
You're doing it again. Searching for similar words or phrases.
We are talking about "it" (the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ), not about respect of persons.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos
What are you saying? Are you making a distinction between "the faith of Jesus Christ" vs. "faith in Jesus Christ"?
You need to go into more detail in your posts and explain what you're saying. These little one- and two-liners aren't working for you.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 08:26 AM
Paul
Justified by faith and works
The faith and works of Christ
Our faith in him requires no works for justification
Written to the Body of Christ
James
Justified by faith and works
By their own faith, which is like the faith that Christ had
Their faith requires works for justification
Written to the twelve tribes of Israel
I don't know how I can make my point any more simple.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Those that think they disagree must think God is the author of confusion. He's not.
So any disagreement comes from mens improper understanding.
Exactly, these people actually believe that conflicting gospels are taught in the New Testament, and that the gospel as found in the epistles of Peter, James, and John is the "accursed" gospel that Paul referred to in Gal 8:1-9. Given that they believe such things, it's no wonder that they tend to be so hateful towards others (as opposed to what Paul himself taught, e.g. Romans 13:10).
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos
Exactly, these people actually believe that conflicting gospels are taught in the New Testament, and that the gospel as found in the epistles of Peter, James, and John is the "accursed" gospel that Paul referred to in Gal 8:1-9. Given that they believe such things, it's no wonder that they tend to be so hateful towards others (as opposed to what Paul himself taught, e.g. Romans 13:10).
If you ever come to the understanding of the truth that Paul could not be in that "church of God" that he persecuted, yet he was wonderfully saved into "a church", things will open up for you.
Until then, you will continue to mix it all up ignoring God's purpose for the earth (prophecy), and his purpose for heaven (which was a mystery). And, you will have plenty of company, if you take comfort in how many "Christians" down through the centuries agree with you.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
The kingdom is within, and comes without observation.
Reputation:
December 21st, 2011, 09:19 AM
I don't understand why the big blindness to this subject still exist. all one as to do is take whats said about those from James Galatians 2:12-13, and what Paul said about the Jerusalem that was then Galatians 4:24-25 which shows which covenant they were still trying to to do the works of the law Romans 10:1-3. Put that together with what James said in Acts 21:20-24 along with Pauls statement about be coming as one under the law to try and win some, and you have the two teachings solved, they were not the same.
James still believed in the weak and beggerly of the old testament shadows that Christ nailed to the cross Acts 21:21-24 verses Ephesians 2:14-15, Colossians 2:14 etc.........What did Isaac do to become a son of promise? The role Abraham played was God the Father and the act of giving his son pointed to what GOD WOULD DO on the cross by offering a substitute in mans place 2Cor 5:18-19! the works after salvation is the correct senario not work to obtain it, or be justified to God Romans 4:1-4, men may need to see works God doesn't He took care of the work part.'.
Throw the religion in the trash and trust in what He did for you, and in you Philippians 2:12-13, 1:6. Your saved but your still a work in progress for His purpose not your religions.
all one as to do is take whats said about those from James Galatians 2:12-13
They went out from James but they were not of James, as John clearly wrote in 1 John 2:19.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
Paul said about the Jerusalem that was then Galatians 4:24-25...
Paul was referring to unbelieving Jews/concision in those verses, not to James and the Twelve Apostles of Jesus, who were saved and not in bondage (James 2:12; 1 Peter 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7).
Peter said he was free and not in bondage:
1 Peter 2:16
as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
Which is no different from what Paul wrote:
Galatians 5:13
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
James still believed in the weak and beggerly of the old testament shadows that Christ nailed to the cross Acts 21:21-24 verses Ephesians 2:14-15, Colossians 2:14 etc........
James was not of the concision as he clearly stated in Acts 15:19 and 15:24.
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