The essence of being American is to always question. And to adjust the government to fit the people, not vice-versa. That is why the FIRST AMENDMENT is freedom of speech, press, religion, etc... And that is why the FoundingFathers allowed the Constitution to be amended. To adjust for the changing needs of the people. But now, the gov't is builfing itself into a propaganda machine that wants power for the sake of power, and not for the sake of the people. The populace is being so twisted that anyone who questions the established way of thinking is immediately discounted and shunned. The people who question are the true patriots. Please feel free to refute me. It is your right as an American to question. In fact, please question what I say, but also actually consider it with an open mind.
The Invasion of Iraq
The deliberate and proven misleading of the US government, the twist of the intelligence to fit the administration's purposes, and the blind acceptance of this by most Americans is a prime example of how Americans are losing their ability to question. Now, even in this forum, people are being insulted simply for questioning.
kudos to aikido and skeptic for being Patriotic.
To flag-waving, arrogant, neo-con "Christians": please actually THINK what this country stands for before opening your mouths (or moving your fingers across the keyboard).
I'd hate to think that this country stands for the killing of tens of thousands to remove someone, somewhere, who MAY become a threat in the future. Applying that logic, if thats what it means to be American, then why haven't we attempted to conquer the world? Because any country could theoretically become a future threat.
I guess this means the stupid massive left-wing propaganda experiment failed.
The experiment is not over yet. Time will tell as to whether it becomes a success.
Quote:
They did think and reelected George W. Bush overwhelmingly.
Wrong. They elected George W. Bush because they DID NOT think!
The Bush Lies: "When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Then you agree that there are times when we must kill thousands of innocent people BEFORE an imminent threat actually exists. Correct?
Quote:
That's not what happened.
Let me ask yet again: Forgetting about Iraq for a moment, in general, is it ever morally justifiable to kill thousands of innocent people in the hope that it will prevent a "terrorist" rogue dictator from becoming a possible future threat, in the absence of clear hard evidence of an existing significant imminent threat?
You just said that you agreed with Bush that we needed to invade Iraq BEFORE a threat became imminent. If this is your position, then you believe that it IS morally justifiable to kill thousands of innocent people in the hope that doing so will prevent a "terrorist" rogue dictator from becoming a possible future threat. Correct?
The Bush Lies: "When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
If Bush fixed all this intel, tell me why Clinton lobbed a few missles at Saddam???????
The following are excerpts of a 1996 article.
My emphasis:
=================================== Clinton: Strike sends message to Saddam
Iraq says 5 Iraqis killed, 19 wounded
September 3, 1996
Web posted at: 12:20 p.m. EDT (1620 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton said Tuesday that the U.S. missile attack against Iraqi targets was in retaliation for Iraq's assault on a Kurdish-controlled city in northern Iraq.
Navy ships and Air Force B-52 bombers fired a total of 27 cruise missiles at "selected air defense targets" in southern Iraq for about a 45-minute period beginning midmorning, the Pentagon told CNN.
"Our objectives are limited, but clear," the president said. "To make Saddam pay a price for the latest act of brutality, and to reduce his ability to threaten his neighbors and America's interests."
"Our missiles sent the following message to Saddam Hussein: When you abuse your own people or threaten your neighbors, you must pay a price," Clinton said.
...
Clinton ordered the air strike against southern targets after Iraqi forces overran the Kurdish city of Irbil, in the "safe haven" in northern Iraq. The purpose of the Iraqi assault was apparently to put a Kurdish faction loyal to Saddam in charge of the city.
Irbil was to be a key distribution center for humanitarian supplies purchased by Iraq under a U.N. resolution allowing a limited easing of the sanctions placed against the country after Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990.
"Until we are sure these humanitarian supplies can actually get to those who need them, the plan cannot go forward," Clinton said.
The U.S., Britain, and France announced that Wednesday the southern no-fly zone -- north from the Kuwaiti border -- would be expanded from the 32nd parallel to the 33rd, allowing allied planes to fly within 30 miles of Baghdad. The expanded no-fly zone is intended to serve as a warning to Saddam that his aggression would not be tolerated, Clinton said.
...
Clinton did not rule out further military action against Iraq.
"It depends on what (Saddam) does -- not what he says -- what he does," said the president.
Clinton did NOT order an all-out massive invasion of Iraq, which he knew would have unnecessarily killed many thousands of innocent men, women and children! Clinton did NOT claim to have sufficient evidence that Iraq was such a WMD threat that an all-out invasion was necessary.
Clinton was wrong to give any support to Bush's invasion of March 2003.
The Bush Lies: "When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
I'd hate to think that this country stands for the killing of tens of thousands to remove someone, somewhere, who MAY become a threat in the future. Applying that logic, if thats what it means to be American, then why haven't we attempted to conquer the world? Because any country could theoretically become a future threat.
Don't worry, Bush and company have plans on the table for more than just Iraq. As we speak, they are coming up with new ways to dupe the American public and Congress into fearing alleged future threats by other nations. They are willing to unnecessarily risk the lives of thousands of innocent people in "enemy" nations, in order to protect just "one American life."
If they can conquer the world in the name of "freedom and democracy," they will. They're working on it.
The Bush Lies: "When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Don't worry, Bush and company have plans on the table for more than just Iraq. As we speak, they are coming up with new ways to dupe the American public and Congress into fearing alleged future threats by other nations. They are willing to unnecessarily risk the lives of thousands of innocent people in "enemy" nations, in order to protect just "one American life."
If they can conquer the world in the name of "freedom and democracy," they will. They're working on it.
I pity the poor, brave US solidiers who will have to fight and die for Bush's crusade.
Location: In front of the strange glowing screen of an inexplicable mechanism.
Rep Power: 26053
Christian
More left than right
Slogan/motto:
"Never spit in a man's face unless his mustache is on fire."
Reputation:
June 7th, 2005, 08:18 PM
And Watergate was just a "third-rate burglary." Nothing to get excited about.
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...terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich...
Beliefs? The more the merrier! (Thanks, LaurieJo!)
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Location: In front of the strange glowing screen of an inexplicable mechanism.
Rep Power: 26053
Christian
More left than right
Slogan/motto:
"Never spit in a man's face unless his mustache is on fire."
Reputation:
June 8th, 2005, 06:31 AM
"We have reached a point where all but the most delusional enthusiasts of the Iraq war have now acknowledged that Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion and likely for over a decade preceding the war. Fox News and the President were slow to acknowledge this fact, but now have.
"Unfortunately, it seems this rare consensus has lulled many into failing to ask the follow-up question: why were the President and other high-ranking administration officials so definitive in their statements that Iraq possessed WMD? This question is not of a merely historical significance: we deserve to know whether these statements were the result of a 'massive intelligence failure' as some have contended or a deliberate deception of the Congress and the American people."
He has also destroyed the English language, which--to many children who look to the president as a role model--has left them behind.
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...terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich...
Beliefs? The more the merrier! (Thanks, LaurieJo!)
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