ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
Hebrews 4:2
For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Hmm.
Aside: is receiving the Spirit an act of faith? and, when a person receives the Spirit, do we say they have now been regenerated?
Not sure about the spark you mention.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Well I know that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit so what sparks Him? I was taught that we are regenerated the moment we exercise our faith. Also I was taught that faith and belief are the same thing.
Nothing "sparks" the Spirit. God the Spirit moves as has been decreed from eternity, in the fullness of time.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
Nothing "sparks" the Spirit. God the Spirit moves as has been decreed from eternity, in the fullness of time.
AMR
Decrees happen in time, so it is difficult to understand God's Sovereignty.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
You said it was your freewill (your inclinations), that led you to choose. And, you have allowed that your greatest inclination before you were saved, by which you chose salvation, were evil. That is what I don't understand.
I believe God can "pull this off" as you say. But I don't believe you have freewill inclinations that overcome the evil inclination such that you are saved by your choice.
I believe that without freewill we make the choice to follow Jesus because God is the King and this is what He wants. It is by grace through faith, a gift of God. It is not of works.
Do you have a freewill that is separate from "man's autonomy"?
Again, the free will I speak of is simply choosing according to your inclinations. Before you are re-born, your inclinations are wholly at hatred of God. You are spiritually dead and will never be inclined to choose God.
God the Spirit regenerates the person, "Lazarus, come forth", if you will. Lazarus had no "choice" in the matter.
You need to unpack this:
Quote:
I believe that without freewill we make the choice to follow Jesus because God is the King and this is what He wants. It is by grace through faith, a gift of God. It is not of works.
What exactly do you mean "without freewill we make the choice"?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
Again, the free will I speak of is simply choosing according to your inclinations.
But if your inclination is evil, how would you choose salvation and it be good?
Quote:
Before you are re-born, your inclinations are wholly at hatred of God. You are spiritually dead and will never be inclined to choose God.
Yes.
Quote:
God the Spirit regenerates the person, "Lazarus, come forth", if you will. Lazarus had no "choice" in the matter.
Not sure about the "God the Spirit" part.
Quote:
You need to unpack this:
What exactly do you mean "without freewill we make the choice"?
AMR
I mean we have a will, but we aren't free to do whatever we like.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Aside: is receiving the Spirit an act of faith? and, when a person receives the Spirit, do we say they have now been regenerated?
Not sure about the spark you mention.
I was taught that the human element to our salvation is our decision upon hearing the gospel. I think for me I heard the gospel call for many years but I put it off as long as I could. I don't know why I did that except I knew I was going to have to give something in return.
I don't know why I used the word spark but I do know when I finally agreed that I needed God to save me. It lit a fire but it was a good fire very warm not too hot. Maybe it was just a light that turned on.
And receiving the Spirit is not an act of faith. Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit. When we "decide" to trust in Christ.
Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
The question is what was (originally) meant by God's Sovereignty, as opposed to what has been parroted down to we (us) the people (who haven't converted to Calvinism yet?).
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
I was taught that the human element to our salvation is our decision upon hearing the gospel. I think for me I heard the gospel call for many years but I put it off as long as I could. I don't know why I did that except I knew I was going to have to give something in return.
I don't know why I used the word spark but I do know when I finally agreed that I needed God to save me. It lit a fire but it was a good fire very warm not too hot. Maybe it was just a light that turned on.
And receiving the Spirit is not an act of faith. Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit. When we "decide" to trust in Christ.
Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
My mind goes back to the verse I am asking about, the "hearing with faith" part.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
The question is what was (originally) meant by God's Sovereignty, as opposed to what has been parroted down to we (us) the people (who haven't converted to Calvinism yet?).
Not sure what you mean or if you are responding to me or sky here.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
What does "hearing with faith" mean to you? I'm not sure I know what it means.
I think you said there was a time spoken of in the Bible where their works were not united with faith.
They obviously heard from God.
We listen to the word of God, and instead of it going in one ear and out the other, it sinks in. Not the hearer who does nothing with what he has learned.
Faith.
The Spirit of God.
"Hearing" is the word.
Not sure what to do with all this
salvation equations... lol
But seriously, I heard "born again" (as opposed to "re-birth" I think) before I ever heard the term "regeneration".
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
January 21st, 2012, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
You acknowledged the reason with this:
Holy Spirit is the agent of regeneration via efficacious grace.
I agree, no?
AMR
You somehow believe in freewill and Calvinism.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Lazarus had no "choice" in the matter. 
Linear Mode
