[steko]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

You're welcome


Now you have me curious. What's the first?

Well....if one believes that the defense of self, family or innocents is justifiable to the point of taking the life of another, then the 'last thing' one wants to do is fail in that endeavor.

[Mike C.]

Originally Posted by steko

Well....if one believes that the defense of self, family or innocents is justifiable to the point of taking the life of another, then the 'last thing' one wants to do is fail in that endeavor.

That's what I thought, actually.

[poshgrl]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

We're not unequally yoked, but it's still worldly. Paul clarifies for us that those who are married must care about many things in the world. But he does not condemn those who do choose to marry.

Defending others' bodies is likewise a worldly thing, but is still commendable.


Nobody thinks collateral death is good.


Why do you keep calling people fools? It's rude.

du not yoke 2 world oppressor, boy

yo mamma say.

Iraq Body Count (IBC) recorded 4,087 civilian deaths from violence in 2011. Evidence of these deaths was extracted from some 6,828 distinct reports collected from over 90 sources covering 1,884 incidents, each of which is openly listed on the IBC website. This brings the total number of deaths in the IBC database so far to 114,423. These numbers represent a verifiable documentary record of deaths, and are not estimates (for some partially estimated figures, see 'WikiLeaks update' below).

Data contained in the Iraq War Logs released by WikiLeaks (the largest official source on the conflict to have become publicly available) have already added a confirmed 1,363 civilian deaths to the IBC database. 629 of these deaths were directly caused by US-led coalition forces and 56 by Iraq security forces.2 We estimate that further analysis of the Logs will eventually add another 13,000 civilian deaths.

no account 2 u. FOO.

i say 45 meelion feetus die, hoo cares. how many dat, FOO?

[graceandpeace]

Town Heretic;2945660]No. You didn't tell me what you would do to prevent a death camp. Or answer me on Jesus speaking about the fate of those who impede children. And did Christ say he came to sow seeds of understanding between family members? You didn't take on your selective understanding concerning being in and not of the world. I assume you work and hold down a job, buy and/or sell. But you suddenly engage that separate gear when it comes to risking your neck for the neck of another?

To prevent a death camp? Did not armies to go war and prevent it? Do you think a christian had to be involved in it, to get it done? I don't understand your reasoning. Laws of the land, are kept by even non believers, are they not, for the most part...and, I did answer you. I said, I trusted Jesus to use the Authority/civil, or worldly governments to get this done. I trust Him to do so...His word explains why He gave them that Authority. As for family members, the bible teaches that we cannot love our earthly family more than we love Him, or we are not worthy of Him. That to me means, we follow HIS law/faith working by love, at all costs...and, if our family members are against us, don't you think the love would bring them closer to a right understanding of God, rather than IF we set our hearts to do unto them as they did unto us?

I have been tested to the limits on this...and, I trusted God and He did NOT fail. I will give you one example...long ago, my sister was involved in a very bad marriage..and, her husband was a drunk, beat her, and she was afraid to leave him, because he said he would kill her....she came to me desperate one day, and said she did not know what to do, so I told her to come live with me, and he would not be able to hurt her there. So, one evening, shortly after she moved in, here he comes up on my porch with his rifle under his arm...I said to myself, what to do? First of all, I prayed...and, then I opened the door, looked him in the face, and asked him how it made him feel to be such a big guy, but he needed a gun to visit my home? Then I told him the police were on their way, so if he better decide what he wanted to do, because they would be there soon. He looked me in the eye, and said, "you are not afraid of me"? I said, "no, you can harm my flesh, but, what good is that going to do for you. You can do nothing about my faith in God, that has told me to love you in your weakness, as He loves me in mine". He looked at me and turned and walked away.

The next day, he called me and thanked me for standing up to him and that he would not bother my sister anymore.

I could tell you other stories, but I do not have time right now...needless to say, EVEN if he killed me, he could not harm the real me, and, those whom seek to save their flesh shall lose it, according to Jesus. I tend to believe Him.

I get that you seem more than willing to let the next guy liberate that death camp.

God tells us in HIS word, why they are the authority for such things....why is it so hard to just believe it?

Don't recall where you asked that, but my answer would be that we do trust Christ/God and the work he puts before us. Sometimes it's easy work, like forgiveness. Other times it's harder, like storming the beach at Anzio. Both work to advance the good.

The bible says you cannot work evil to work good. Overcome evil with good...and, it is never good to kill your enemy, for how can you claim to love someone you kill? It makes no sense, but thank you for the conversation, and thank you for the nice comment on my wall, and I appreciate you, and your thoughts, but we will never agree....God has shown me too much on this subject to reject HIS words.

Again, there is a great moral distinction between sacrificing for others and sacrificing others for yourself.

There is not one bible verse that teaches us to sacrifice our enemies for good. How do you equate sacrificing your life for your enemies, when you are killing them? It is an opposite, teaching, in mho.

And there you are in all your self celebratory glory. From a want of maturity, to ilk, to a lack of faith in Christ. It doesn't take long to get to the meshak at your center, does it?

You mean like they treat him/her? Often we react when we are called ugly names...etc. I know I have acted out of my flesh, when people say ugly things to me, etc. You should see the ugly neg reps, I receive, for simply speaking that faith works by love and love does not harm.

Something is terribly wrong, if you ask me.

It is when you know what to look for...I figure someone like you will almost always expose their deep and abiding love if given enough rope.

God has changed my heart, I will not deny it. If you equate that to meaning something other than what I express to you, sincerely, I can do nothing of it.

God Bless, and each of us will stand before the judgement seat of Christ, all I am doing is judging false teachings, and when I call someone whom is upholding a false teaching as 'ilk', it is because I hate their teaching, for it hurts my heart, and the love that lives there.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

There is a difference between "sowing" warfare and engaging in it. Those who sow to the flesh will reap of the flesh; the good soldier does not fight his own fight, but he fights under authority for the defenseless. If a soldier fights for his own reasons, he fights for his flesh and will reap accordingly. To seek out warfare is to "sow" warfare, but to engage in it is not the same as seeking it out.


I never killed anybody, but I was in the position where it might have been necessary.

When I was stationed in Iraq I had to ask myself a lot of questions about the righteousness of my choices and actions. I am the farthest from a warfaring man, yet I joined the military to my own consternation. I had to contend with my responsibility to my oath taken under God to protect America from foreign and domestic enemies. Although I prayed to God that I not enter a situation that would cause me to take a life, I knew my duty to Him and to the country to do so if need be. I know what it means to have a sensitive conscience on this issue, but I also recognize that God calls different people to different areas of service. It is for some to physically defend peace in this world, and it is for others to stay far away from such methods. To think that one is implicitly superior to the other is to count one's own calling above their brother's. Yet even the apostles did not consider their callings worthy of honor above those in the lowliest service to the Lord.


You don't know from experience. It is good to take counsel from those who do. You mention some Christian men whose consciences were offended by their choices, but it appears you have only experienced or noticed one side of the story; for you assume that those whose consciences aren't bothered are pretending.

Hi Mike. I understand.

I do not want to argue this issue any longer. To each his/her own, but the bible says this world has no peace, so how could you fight for it anyway?

It is doomed to destruction; it was from day one, and unless you receive the new covenant, in Jesus shed blood that teaches you all things, as pertaining to love and godliness, you are doomed with the world.

Have a good day.

[Town Heretic]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

To prevent a death camp?

From continuing in its purpose.

Do you think a christian had to be involved in it, to get it done?

Given we were the difference and we were and sent a primarily Christian force: absolutely.

I said, I trusted Jesus to use the Authority/civil, or worldly governments to get this done. I trust Him to do so...

Supra, and He did. We, the people.

His word explains why He gave them that Authority. As for family members, the bible teaches that we cannot love our earthly family more than we love Him, or we are not worthy of Him.

I know. He said that he came to divide us.

That to me means, we follow HIS law/faith working by love, at all costs...and, if our family members are against us, don't you think the love would bring them closer to a right understanding of God, rather than IF we set our hearts to do unto them as they did unto us?

You're reaching beyond my point.

I have been tested to the limits on this...

You were fortunate. I worked as an advocate for battered women for years. I could name a half dozen who would have shot you outright and then your sister. Or do you believe no Christians perish at the hands of the wicked.

God tells us in HIS word, why they are the authority for such things....why is it so hard to just believe it?

It isn't God's word, but your understanding that I differ with and question.

The bible says you cannot work evil to work good.

And I agree. But we differ on the nature of killing to defend the innocent. As I recently said to meshak:

"I say to protect the victim. Sometimes that means the enemy of the good and of God perish. Doesn't mean I desire that any more than God's judgement means He desires any to be unsaved."

Overcome evil with good...and, it is never good to kill your enemy,

You're wrong on that point. It's the foundational error in your approach.

for how can you claim to love someone you kill?

Look to my answer above to meshak.

It makes no sense, but thank you for the conversation, and thank you for the nice comment on my wall, and I appreciate you, and your thoughts, but we will never agree....God has shown me too much on this subject to reject HIS words.

I think your context is skewed, but thanks for the rest and I hope that one day you see this differently.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by steko

Well....if one believes that the defense of self, family or innocents is justifiable to the point of taking the life of another, then the 'last thing' one wants to do is fail in that endeavor.

Can you give us a verse on this?

Jesus said he whom seeks to save his life will lose it. Jesus said, do not take vengeance, it belongs to Him. Jesus said, Jesus said ,but no one cares...so there ya go....have it your way, and those of us whom want to do what He says, can be called the ugly names in the chat box.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

From continuing in its purpose.


Given we were the difference and we were and sent a primarily Christian force: absolutely.


Supra, and He did. We, the people.


I know. He said that he came to divide us.


You're reaching beyond my point.


You were fortunate. I worked as an advocate for battered women for years. I could name a half dozen who would have shot you outright and then your sister. Or do you believe no Christians perish at the hands of the wicked.


It isn't God's word, but your understanding that I differ with and question.


And I agree. But we differ on the nature of killing to defend the innocent. As I recently said to meshak:

"I say to protect the victim. Sometimes that means the enemy of the good and of God perish. Doesn't mean I desire that any more than God's judgement means He desires any to be unsaved."


You're wrong on that point. It's the foundational error in your approach.


Look to my answer above to meshak.


I think your context is skewed, but thanks for the rest and I hope that one day you see this differently.

like I said, not arguing it anymore...to each his/her own.

We shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, that will be sufficient...

[Mike C.]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

Hi Mike. I understand.

I do not want to argue this issue any longer.

Sorry for ganging up on you. When I see someone critiquing military membership I often feel like jumping in since I was in it myself.

To each his/her own, but the bible says this world has no peace, so how could you fight for it anyway?

I don't know if you were looking for an explicit answer, but even though we know the world comes to an end does not mean we should be a part of that process. Christians should always seek to conserve the world where it advances the cause of the gospel, as we understand it is God's world and thus of great worth. Especially the people contained therein.

Have a good day.

[meshak]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

like I said, not arguing it anymore...to each his/her own.

We shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, that will be sufficient...

Well said Gracie, You are fighting a good fight. Satan will be working even harder and harder because his time is ending soon.

All we can do is spread the whole truth.

You are doing very well defending Jesus' word.

God bless you, sister.

[Mike C.]

Originally Posted by poshgrl

du not yoke 2 world oppressor, boy

yo mamma say.

Okay, I won't. But what does that have to do with the military in general?

Iraq Body Count (IBC) recorded 4,087 civilian deaths from violence in 2011. Evidence of these deaths was extracted from some 6,828 distinct reports collected from over 90 sources covering 1,884 incidents, each of which is openly listed on the IBC website. This brings the total number of deaths in the IBC database so far to 114,423. These numbers represent a verifiable documentary record of deaths, and are not estimates (for some partially estimated figures, see 'WikiLeaks update' below).

Data contained in the Iraq War Logs released by WikiLeaks (the largest official source on the conflict to have become publicly available) have already added a confirmed 1,363 civilian deaths to the IBC database. 629 of these deaths were directly caused by US-led coalition forces and 56 by Iraq security forces.2 We estimate that further analysis of the Logs will eventually add another 13,000 civilian deaths.

no account 2 u. FOO.

You need to establish a context to the numbers, not just copy and paste them with the implication that they all came from the US. Take a look at these charts from an interactive graph on the same website.


Settings: Maximum recorded killed from 2003 to 2011
Red bars: In Iraq by any weapons with any perpetrators killing 1 or more.
Grey bars: In Iraq by any weapons with US-led coalition incl. Iraqi state forces killing 1 or more.

As you can see, the vast majority of civilian deaths came from unknown non-US perpetrators.

I won't say that the website is unreliable. In fact, their data validation techniques are especially impressive. Nevertheless, I did find this curious bit, which suggests there are some errors in their fact-checking process.


Settings: Maximum recorded killed from 2003 to 2011
Red bars: In Iraq by suicide attack with US-led coalition, no Iraqi state forces killing 1 or more.

United States suicide attack?

The page containing the interactive graph is
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011/

i say 45 meelion feetus die, hoo cares. how many dat, FOO?

Aborted fetuses are not comparable to collateral damage. Only one of these is intentional and easily preventable.

[renegadelackey]

Contrary to popular belief - There is much that must be done in order to qualify for eternal life.

1. You must find the strait gate and enter into it and then go all the way down to the end.
Matthew 7:13,14 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.
Life is at the END of the narrow way: therefore the strait gate and the narrow way MUST come first.
Life = Salvation = Having the Son
1 John 5:12 - He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

2. You must pick up your own cross.
Matthew 10:38 - And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Luke 9:23 - And he said to them all, if any man will come after me, let him deny hmself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Matthew 22:8 - Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

3. You must be baptized (not water baptism, but the same baptism Jesus went through at the cross.
Matthew 20:22,23 - But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, we are able. And he said unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Romans 6:3 - Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

4. You must find Jesus. The literal flesh and blood Jesus; not a religious system, not a beliefism, but the same Jesus who rose from the dead.
John 5:40 - And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Somewhere out there in time and space the Lord is hiding; it's your job to find him.
Isaiah 8:17 - And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
Job 23:3 - Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Psalm 27:8 - When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.
Those who don't and those who refuse will end up in eternal ruin.
Psalm 143:7 - Hear me speedily, O Lord: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.
Psalm 28:1 - Unto thee will I cry, O Lord my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like unto them that go down into the pit.
John 6:46 - Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God
Ezekiel 13:3 - Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing.

5. We must prove ourselves worthy of eternal life.
Matthew 22:8 - Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Luke 20:35 - But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.

6. We must obey him.
Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 14:21 - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
2 John vs. 6 - And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Proverbs 19:16 - He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul; but he that despiseth his way shall die.
John 8:51 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Matthew 19:16,17 - And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandmnets.
Revelation 22:12-14 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

7. We must lay up in store for ourselves a good foundation that we may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6:18,19 - That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternallife.
We must sow to the spirit and not be weary in well doing.
Galatians 6:7-9 - Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

8. We must study to show ourselves approved unto God. If you don't study then you won't be approved, and if you're not approved then no way you're going to be saved.
2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We must continue in the doctrine.
1 Timothy 4:16 - Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Because the scriptures make us wise UNTO salvation.
2 Timothy 3:14,15 - But continue thou in all things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

9. We must endure temptation and be tried (proven)
James 1:12 - Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
1 Peter 4:12 - Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which IS to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.

10. We must come to the end of our faith.
1 Peter 1:9 - Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matthew 10:22 - And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 - And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

11. We must labour for the meat that endures UNTO everlasting life.
John 6:27 - Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

12. We must hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.
Hebrews 3:6 - But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.

13. We must patiently wait for salvation
Luke 21:19 - In your patience possess ye your souls.
Hebrews 6:12 - That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 6:15 - And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Hebrews 10:36 - For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God ye might receive the promise.
Lamentations 3:25,26 - The Lord is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord.
Genesis 49:18 - I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord.
Psalm 119:81 - My soul fainteth for thy salvation, but I hope in thy word.
Through much tribulation
Acts 14:22 - Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
By patient continuance in well doing.
Romans 2:6-10 - Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To those who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignatioin and wrath. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that doeth evil of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.

14. We must sanctify ourselves before we are saved.
2 Corinthians 6:17 - Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you.
Jeremiah 4:14 - O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
2 Timothy 2:22 - Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

15. Righteousness must precede salvation.
Psalm 37:39 - But the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
Proverbs 10:2 - Treasures of wickedness profit nothing: but righteousness delivereth from death.
Proverbs 11:4 - Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death.
Proverbs 10:16 - The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.
Romans 5:21 - That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign THROUGH righteousness unto eternal life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Peter 4:18 - And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

16. True son must first endure chastisement.
Hebrews 12:8 - But if ye be without chastisement; whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons.
Hebrews 12:5 - And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him.

17. We must be servants first, sonship and salvation come second
Galatians 4:7 - Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Psalm 34:22 - The Lord redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.
John 8:35 - And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

18. We must gather fruit UNTO eternal life.
John 4:36 - And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto eternal life: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
John 15:2 - Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

19. We must continue in his goodness.
Romans 11:22 - Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Jude vs. 20,21 - But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

20. We must press to the mark for the prize of salvation
Philippians 3:14 - I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

21. We must obey the gospel
Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
2 Thessalonians 1:8 - In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:17 - For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

22. We must fight the good fight of faith.
1 Timothy 6:12 - Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

23. We must add to our faith; virtue and knowledge and temperance and patience and godliness and brotherly kindness and charity. If you don't your fall is certain.
2 Peter 1:5-10 - And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for it ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

[Gurucam]

.

Originally Posted by vegascowboy

Nothing.

Now put aside those false beliefs and read on.

Ask yourselves the following questions carefully.

1. Why do we, the children of God, need salvation? What is wrong with pleading ignorance and tiptoeing through life, confident in the fact that God will rescue us at the end of it all? You aren't all that bad. You haven't done anything that would warrant the wrath of a loving God! Have you?

Are you a child of God?

Romans: 8 verse: 14:
Only those who are led by the Spirit are children of God.

Are you led by the Spirit?

Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6
God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those children of the flesh who were under the law so that they might become adopted children of God.

Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27:
Search your heart to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do.

Do you search you heart to know precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do? And are you led into all your works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do as discerned within your own heart or spirit?

If your answer is no, then you ain't a child of God.

Do you esteem the law (even as the slightest guide)? If your answer is yes then, you ain't a Christian, you ain't 'in Christ' and therefore you ain't a child of God.

Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4
Those who esteem the law are under the law and not under grace and being in Christ is not for them.

[Mike C.]

Originally Posted by renegadelackey

Contrary to popular belief - There is much that must be done in order to qualify for eternal life.

Those who are saved will do all those things and more; but it will not be them doing it, but God doing it in them. While we were yet sinners he saved us, before we do all those things.

[meshak]

Originally Posted by Mike C.

Those who are saved will do all those things and more; but it will not be them doing it, but God doing it in them. While we were yet sinners he saved us, before we do all those things.

Who says it otherwise?

I am making you accountable for your cliams. You are not showing godly and scriptural fruit with your actions. So your claim is moot and just empty word.