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Gurucam Gurucam is online now
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February 8th, 2012, 05:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
Instead Paul says that He is not under the Law, but under the law of Christ.
Obviously this confirms the existence of two sets of laws.

One is described as 'the law' (i.e. the Ten Commandments) and the other the law of Christ, (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus).


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Obviously the law here is the Ten Commandments. This says 'one who esteem the Ten Commandments in the smallest way, is under the Ten Commandments and he must uphold all the Ten Commandments to the letter in order to be saved and delivered. And such a person is not like Paul. He is not under the law of Christ. That is such a person is not under Grace and being in Christ is not for him'

This is based on your quote: Paul says that He is not under the Law, but under the law of Christ.

One is the law of Moses and the other the law of Christianity and these are totally different things. One is under the Ten Commandments which killeth and the other is righteousness of God without the law.

Righteousness of God without the law is unconditional obedience to precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments.

When one is led into his works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments one is in Christ. This is the 'law of Christ'.




Last edited by Gurucam; February 8th, 2012 at 06:08 AM..
   
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February 8th, 2012, 05:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
The scriptures do not speak of being above the law. Saying one is "not above the law" is how we speak in modern times to express ideas like being law abiding citizens and respecting authority. In my case it is also saying that if I sin, God is still God and I am wrong not right.The Bible doesn't speak about being level with the law. It speaks about being under the law of Christ.What do you mean by "level with the law"? Who do you believe supports me? I am having a conversation with you... and I am in favor of there being God given authority in the world. It is not time to rebell, but time to obey God. This is not an issue of being under the law. This is an issue of obeying the gospel, obeying God, obeying Jesus Christ, obeying our parents and church leaders and government officials. This is about not turning to satan and thinking we can do sin in the name of God.Gurucam,

I do not have a 'flock'. I am a part of the body of Christ, the church. If you do not see eye to eye with me, don't claim that it is because I do not accept you. You misinterpret and distort scripture, intending to tear other people (like myself) down for their desire to follow God with all that they are, heart, soul, mind, and strength. We follow God because the ways of the world are satanic. God's ways are not satanic. Please be careful what you say. A pleasant conversation where we challenge each other in the things of God that we may serve Christ better is edifying to all. Saying we should sin and intentionally break the law as the Spirit of God leads us is saying God is against Himself and against us and that we ought to turn against Him as well. There is no need for this foolish kind of talk.

Seek to build others up in the word of God. Remember 2 Timothy 3:16-17. It is New Testament teaching, and the scriptures cannot be "worked around" to get to a better "Christian" day today. Christianity is about Christ. And Christ is not about destroying God's word, the scriptures, or any part of the law. Christ is about doing away with the deeds of the flesh, which are contrary to the law, and which we have no help against by the law or without God's help.

Glory be to God Gurucam! He helps us in our need.

Shalom.
Oh was that Beautiful! Even with the Greek words, the Truth is so understandable. I see restoration of all truths, only steps away





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 05:55 AM

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Originally Posted by JonahofAkron View Post
Did I say strange? I meant bad theologian. You still depend on verses that are completely yanked from their context to support the impossibly dense idea that Jesus would go against Torah. He could not be Messiah if this were true. If you read the whole bible, you might realize your folly.
That's exactly true Jonah. The "VOLUME OF THE BOOK"!

"To the Torah and the witnesses! If they do not speak according to this Word, there is no light in them!" (YeshaYahu)





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 05:57 AM

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Originally Posted by JonahofAkron View Post
Wow. You really fudged those verses' meanings to come to this conclusions. Rough. Really....where do you get this? It's upsettingly untrue.
The truth of it was told us by Peter, we are seeing destruction, by twisting. Upsettingly true...to say the least.





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post
Obviously this confirms the existence of two sets of laws.

One is described as 'the law' (i.e. the Ten Commandments) and the other the law of Christ, (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus).


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Obviously the law here is the Ten Commandments. This says 'one who esteem the Ten Commandments in the smallest way, is under the Ten Commandments and he must uphold all the Ten Commandments to the letter in order to be saved and delivered. And such a person is not like Paul. He is not under the law of Christ. That is such a person is not under Grace and being in Christ is not for him'

This is based on your quote: Paul says that He is not under the Law, but under the law of Christ.

One is the law of Moses and the other the law of Christianity and these are totally different things. One is under the Ten Commandments which killeth and the other is righteousness of God without the law.

Righteousness of God without the law is unconditional obedience to precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments.
There is no such thing as "the law of Moses", why can't you get that through your thick "stiffnecked" head? It was NEVER MOSES LAW!
IT IS, WAS AND EVER SHALL BE, THE LAW OF YAHUWEH! And IF He is your Father, don't YOU think that out of love and respect you should not only know what HE want of you, but also DO what HE desired? Isn't that what you pray for in what you call The Lord's Prayer?

If it ain't, you can only lie to yourself. Seems you are doing a good job of that. Not understanding what you see is one thing that is bad. But then, not understanding what is coming out of your own mouth is insanity. "looked into the mirror", "walks away forgetting what they saw". Come to life would you.





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 06:11 AM

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Originally Posted by YahuShuan View Post
The truth of it was told us by Peter, we are seeing destruction, by twisting. Upsettingly true...to say the least.

No!

The truth was told to us by Jesus who confirmed that Peter was Satan.

Then Peter cunningly convince all his followers that he was not Satan.

You chose to believe Peter.

I chose to believe Jesus.

Satan is anyone who is intellectually/physically oriented and is led into his works by his own intellectualizing or the intellectualizing of others like himself.

Satan is an unaware person. One who is dead within.

When an intellectually/physically oriented person (i.e. a satanic person) seeks to be righteous they esteem laws like the Ten Commandments. They are not aware of or concerned with, their own spirit or heart and they are not concerned with Grace of God or the Spirit of Jesus. They like physical things not spiritual things. Things that are physically written down in stone tables and paper or in physically spoken words. They do not know and do not care, about things that are deliver intuitively (none physically) through human hearts or spirits, like Truth from the Spirit of Jesus.

When Jesus got his instruction from God directly and intuitively from His Spirit (which was to go to Jerusalem where He will suffer persecution, denial, torture and crucifixion), Peter told Jesus to ignore those instructions and instead listen to him (peter) and by pass Jerusalem. This confirmed to Jesus that Peter was Satan.

Peter knew nothing about being led by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for him to pray for, say and do, as discerned intuitively within his own heart. He was dead within and dead to the Spirit and therefore unaware, totally. Therefore when Jesus got his guidance and instruction in this manner Peter was totally unaware that Christan (those in Christ) get their guidance in this way and they never disobey this guidance. So Peter came up with the intellectually derive ideas of by passing Jerusalem and sough to have Jesus ignore his spiritually discerned, God given mission and take his idea.

And since then and for the past 2000 odd years, Peter and his descendant have been telling their followers to listen to them (i.e. peter and his descendant) instead of being led unconditionally into their works, by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for them to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within their own individual hearts (as Jesus and other Christians are led).

What changed, nothing changed. Peter remained the same Satan.

Peter demonstrates the same appraoch which caused Eve to fall from grace of God.

Eve fell from grace when she listened to the ideas of 'Satan' (i.e. one like peter) and was led into her works by Satan. Unlike Jesus, Eve did not catch on, she was caught by Satan. She chose to be led by Satan and his intellectually derived idea (like the one offer to Jesus by Peter). And Eve stopped being led into all her works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for her to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within her own heart (as Jesus and other Christians are led). This is how Eve fell from grace.

This is peter's mission. His mission is to have people listen to him and be led by him and his canons etc., instead of being led into their works, unconditionally, by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for them to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within their own heart (as Jesus and other Christians are led).

This is what Peter did when Jesus discerned him to be Satan. This continue to be what Peter and his descendant did in the past and continue to do up to this day.

It does not even take 'eyes to see' to discern this Truth that is on display loud and clear for all to see.

We know that Paul was different. We known that Paul came to know Jesus in His Spirit, after Jesus physically left those precincts. Paul knew about being led by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for him to pray for, say and do as discerned within this own heart or spirit. He knew that the Spirit of Jesus passes knowledge or Truth from within his own heart or spirit. In fact this is how Paul got all the information for his commission. Paul's way is the Christian way. Peter's way is the Old way, the Moses-ian way. The old Moses-ian way cannot save and deliver anyone. This is why Jesus ahd to come on earth. This is why righteousness of God without the law was manifested 2000 years ago among those mostly unaware people.




Last edited by Gurucam; February 8th, 2012 at 07:53 AM..
   
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February 8th, 2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post

No!

The truth was told to us by Jesus who confirmed that Peter was Satan.

Then Peter cunningly convince all his followers that he was not Satan.

You chose to believe Peter.

I chose to believe Jesus.

Satan is anyone who is intellectually/physically oriented and is led into his works by his own intellectualizing or the intellectualizing of others like himself.

Satan is an unaware person. One who is dead within.

When an intellectually/physically oriented person seeks to be righteous they esteem laws like the Ten Commandments. They are not aware of or concerned with, their own spirits or hearts or Grace of God or the Spirit.
YOU KEEP EATING FROM THAT TREE OF GOOD and EVIL AND YOU'LL NOT BE ALLOWED BACK INTO THE GARDEN, THAT'S FOR SURE.

You are being caught unaware even as we speak G. And you are going through the same dungheap I went through with Paul. I WAS WRONG! SO ARE YOU!





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 06:42 AM

This isn't a "path" like we all were taught G. It IS a whole bunch of cycles, wherein NONE of the Words of Yahuweh, nor His Witnesses expire. They are ALL for "all mankind", and it does mean "FOREVER". There is no goal wherein one stops at a stop sign. It is a cycle, and when we reach the end of a cycle, it begins AGAIN. And we are to "go forward". It ain't like we get to the Sea and that's the end of where we're going. We "wait on Yahuweh" to "taste and SEE that HE is good". YOU AIN'T, so get over it. Get off your high horse before Abba knocks you off for beating His servants who are in the same boat as you. The verse states "truly OUR fathers inherited lies"...not just mine, and not just yours...OUR FATHERS. There ain't a person out there it does not include. Torah? "STOP DOING EVIL".

Is THAT clear enough?





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 06:49 AM

One more thing there G...If Peter was not forgiven, then neither are you. Why? What do you pray in the "Lord's Prayer"? Don't you expect forgiveness for being wrong? To be forgiven as you forgive is what YOU pray is it not? Why think that Peter is different than you, a man, or you different than Peter, a man. Puts yourself way higher than you should be don't it. Now who is satan? The one who says they have attained the heights? Or the sinner who repented?
I think we know the Scripture on that one eh. The answer is obvious, it he who says they have attained heights not belonging to them. Like Satan DOES. And it is Satan who desires that you find a place, and stop. Thinking you know more than you do, WHEN YOU DON'T. Now go and PROVE the spirits the way they should be proved. "If they do not speak according to this Word, there is no light in them". That also means your interpretation can have no light in it...but The Word does have the light, the "Volume of the Book", and that Book He spoke of, IS THE TORAH AND THE WITNESSES.

The New Testament was added after that. If you don't know the Old Testament, you have NO IDEA what the New Testament says. "GO BACK" (repent).





YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post


You never seem to be settled in what you say.

I quote the following:

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Then I claim that the above conveys that 'one who esteem the law in the smallest way, is under the law and he must uphold all the laws to the letter in order to be saved and delivered. And such a person is not under Grace and being in Christ is not for him' .

And you do not agree.

How can my conclusion be bad theology????

My conclusion is simply a stringing together, in the same order, of the literal words in that revelation.

How can my conclusion be bad theology????

It is you who are trying the tricks of a lemon used car sales man in your effort to support your position of denying the above plain and simple scriptures. Clearly you are trying to sell some lemon idea that is your version of Christianity.

Just from your cagey (i.e. less than forthright) attitude with respect to Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4 above, I suspect that your entire belief system is false Christianity and can be propped up only if you distort and corrupt genuine and authentic revelations of Truth from the KJV N.T., i.e. the scriptures.

What, according to you, is yanked from the above revelation? Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4 is a complete stand alone work of art revelation.

Your problem is that it says clearly that 'one who esteem the law in the smallest way, is under the law and he must uphold all the laws to the letter in order to be saved and delivered. And such a person is not under Grace and being in Christ is not for him'. And you esteem the law. The law is the corner stone of your belief system. The law is the rock on which your church is built.

And here in Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4, Jesus is conveying, very clearly that if your rock is the law you are dead in your waters. That is, you, your peers, your leaders and your church done sink to the bottom and the dark depths.

This is kind of a huge pill to swallow. You can choke on it. On the other hand if you do not take this pill you will continue to live the dark depths.

Kind of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

May be in the next printing of the KJV N.T. you can arrange to remove or change those verses i.e. Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4 which seems to be upsetting your apple cart or more correctly your lemon cart.
Nothing is stand alone. All verses have the entirety of the surrounding writing to contextualize it. The discussion in Galatians 5 has to do with salvation. If anyone goes through the ritual of first century circumcision, they have placed their faith elsewhere. There are three key elements in the circumcision process and all three are to have been done when you began to follow Messiah: a sacrifice(Messiah is ours), a dip in the mikvah(believer's baptism), and circumcision proper(Paul an YHWH declare it to be a matter of the heart). When you do first century circumcision, you are literally denying the three things that you are to have in Yeshua. Again, you rip things from context to fit your own theologies.



   
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February 8th, 2012, 08:51 AM

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Originally Posted by YahuShuan View Post
There is no such thing as "the law of Moses", why can't you get that through your thick "stiffnecked" head? It was NEVER MOSES LAW!
IT IS, WAS AND EVER SHALL BE, THE LAW OF YAHUWEH! And IF He is your Father, don't YOU think that out of love and respect you should not only know what HE want of you, but also DO what HE desired? Isn't that what you pray for in what you call The Lord's Prayer?

If it ain't, you can only lie to yourself. Seems you are doing a good job of that. Not understanding what you see is one thing that is bad. But then, not understanding what is coming out of your own mouth is insanity. "looked into the mirror", "walks away forgetting what they saw". Come to life would you.
Amen!



   
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February 8th, 2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post

No!

The truth was told to us by Jesus who confirmed that Peter was Satan.

Then Peter cunningly convince all his followers that he was not Satan.

You chose to believe Peter.

I chose to believe Jesus.

Satan is anyone who is intellectually/physically oriented and is led into his works by his own intellectualizing or the intellectualizing of others like himself.

Satan is an unaware person. One who is dead within.

When an intellectually/physically oriented person (i.e. a satanic person) seeks to be righteous they esteem laws like the Ten Commandments. They are not aware of or concerned with, their own spirit or heart and they are not concerned with Grace of God or the Spirit of Jesus. They like physical things not spiritual things. Things that are physically written down in stone tables and paper or in physically spoken words. They do not know and do not care, about things that are deliver intuitively (none physically) through human hearts or spirits, like Truth from the Spirit of Jesus.

When Jesus got his instruction from God directly and intuitively from His Spirit (which was to go to Jerusalem where He will suffer persecution, denial, torture and crucifixion), Peter told Jesus to ignore those instructions and instead listen to him (peter) and by pass Jerusalem. This confirmed to Jesus that Peter was Satan.

Peter knew nothing about being led by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for him to pray for, say and do, as discerned intuitively within his own heart. He was dead within and dead to the Spirit and therefore unaware, totally. Therefore when Jesus got his guidance and instruction in this manner Peter was totally unaware that Christan (those in Christ) get their guidance in this way and they never disobey this guidance. So Peter came up with the intellectually derive ideas of by passing Jerusalem and sough to have Jesus ignore his spiritually discerned, God given mission and take his idea.

And since then and for the past 2000 odd years, Peter and his descendant have been telling their followers to listen to them (i.e. peter and his descendant) instead of being led unconditionally into their works, by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for them to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within their own individual hearts (as Jesus and other Christians are led).

What changed, nothing changed. Peter remained the same Satan.

Peter demonstrates the same appraoch which caused Eve to fall from grace of God.

Eve fell from grace when she listened to the ideas of 'Satan' (i.e. one like peter) and was led into her works by Satan. Unlike Jesus, Eve did not catch on, she was caught by Satan. She chose to be led by Satan and his intellectually derived idea (like the one offer to Jesus by Peter). And Eve stopped being led into all her works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for her to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within her own heart (as Jesus and other Christians are led). This is how Eve fell from grace.

This is peter's mission. His mission is to have people listen to him and be led by him and his canons etc., instead of being led into their works, unconditionally, by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for them to pray for, say and do, as discern intuitively from within their own heart (as Jesus and other Christians are led).

This is what Peter did when Jesus discerned him to be Satan. This continue to be what Peter and his descendant did in the past and continue to do up to this day.

It does not even take 'eyes to see' to discern this Truth that is on display loud and clear for all to see.

We know that Paul was different. We known that Paul came to know Jesus in His Spirit, after Jesus physically left those precincts. Paul knew about being led by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for him to pray for, say and do as discerned within this own heart or spirit. He knew that the Spirit of Jesus passes knowledge or Truth from within his own heart or spirit. In fact this is how Paul got all the information for his commission. Paul's way is the Christian way. Peter's way is the Old way, the Moses-ian way. The old Moses-ian way cannot save and deliver anyone. This is why Jesus ahd to come on earth. This is why righteousness of God without the law was manifested 2000 years ago among those mostly unaware people.
........speechless. The KJV has the letters from Peter in it....should they be gotten rid of because of their 'Satanic' influence?



   
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February 8th, 2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post
Obviously this confirms the existence of two sets of laws.

One is described as 'the law' (i.e. the Ten Commandments) and the other the law of Christ, (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus).


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Obviously the law here is the Ten Commandments.
Is circumcision one of the Ten Commandments?
Quote:
This says 'one who esteem the Ten Commandments in the smallest way, is under the Ten Commandments and he must uphold all the Ten Commandments to the letter in order to be saved and delivered.
Actually, it says you don't need to keep the law in order to be saved.
Quote:
And such a person is not like Paul. He is not under the law of Christ. That is such a person is not under Grace and being in Christ is not for him'

This is based on your quote: Paul says that He is not under the Law, but under the law of Christ.

One is the law of Moses and the other the law of Christianity and these are totally different things. One is under the Ten Commandments which killeth and the other is righteousness of God without the law.

Righteousness of God without the law is unconditional obedience to precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Paul said he is not without the law of God, the law of Christ. And Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law.
Quote:
When one is led into his works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments one is in Christ. This is the 'law of Christ'.
Do you accept the prophet Jeremiah? He spoke of a New Covenant, not like the old, that was coming.

The law of Christ is not "Christian law". The law of Christ is to bear one another's burdens.





John 1:49 NASB - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

1 Corinthians 15:24 NASB - then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Colossians 1:13 NASB - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Romans 5:10 NASB - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

2 Corinthians 5:15 NASB - and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Proverbs 2:20 NASB - So you will walk in the way of good men And keep to the paths of the righteous.
   
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February 8th, 2012, 11:09 AM

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Originally Posted by YahuShuan View Post
.but The Word does have the light, the "Volume of the Book", and that Book He spoke of, IS THE TORAH AND THE WITNESSES.

The New Testament was added after that. If you don't know the Old Testament, you have NO IDEA what the New Testament says. "GO BACK" (repent).
These words are true





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Gurucam Gurucam is online now
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February 8th, 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
The law of Christ is not "Christian law". The law of Christ is to bear one another's burdens.

The law of Christ is the promise of the Spirit.

Jesus promise that when he physically went away from among his disciples, the Spirit of Truth will be available to them and this Spirit will bring all Truth.(re John: 16 verses: 7 to 13)

This tells you where Christians get their Truth. (re John: 16 verses: 7 to 13)

Jesus is the Truth, therefore the Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of Jesus.

At another forum the promise of the Spirit was made to Abraham and his seed.

And indeed God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts or spirit of those children of the flesh who were under the law, so that they might become adopted children of God. (Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6)

This was the delivery of the promised Spirit. This was God making good His promise of the Spirit to Abraham and his seed and the promise that Jesus made to his disciples.

This was 2000 odd years ago.

And 2000 odd yeas ago it was declared clearly that: Now (i.e. as from 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17)

Is your lord still the law and the written scriptures?? Did you pick up this offer of the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into heart? This is the New appraoch. Or are you still esteeming the law???? Are you still in the Old system???

Christians are to serve according as proposed in their individual hearts. (re. 2 Corinthians: 9 verse: 7)

Christians are instructed: search your heart to know what the Spirit has in mind for you to pray for say and do and be led into your works by this. (re. Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27 and 14) This is how to be in Christ. This is the law of Christ. The law of Christ is described as obedience onto righteousness. This is unconditional obedience to precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discern within one's own heart or spirit, even if one has to transgress the law.

When one is unconditionally obedient to precisely what the Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart or spirit and one is led into one's works by this, one remains in absolute righteousness with God even if one transgress the law. This is obedience onto righteousness. This is also righteousness of God without the law.

You are truly lost if you believe that the law of Christ is to bear one another burden. Christians are under the law of Christ and they are not beasts of burden. They are children of God and children of freedom, liberty and justification. They are like the fowls of the sky, totally care free and burden free.

Christians are led intuitively, directly, individually and personally by the Spirit. They have no burdens. Under this system of guidance one has no burdens. Under this system one is saved and delivered onto God's kingdom of heaven. One is a fully restored original Adam or Eve in the garden of Eden with no burden for any one to carry.

Those who have burdens are not Christians. At best they are aspiring to be Christians.

If you and yours have burdens then know that you and yours are not among the few Christians on earth at this time. Know that you are not among the few who are saved and chosen for heaven.

The whole idea of being in Christ (i.e. being Christians) is to be saved and delivered. That is, to be burden free and in God's kingdom of heaven.

Look at all those people with burdens and troubles in their lives, in your church, do you actually believe that they are under grace? Do you actually believe that they are saved and chose????
Fooling them into a false sense of security, is the most cruel thing that you can do.

Is this what your perception of being under grace is about?

Traditional Christian churches are led by and flocked by, people seeking to be under grace and seeking to be in Christ. These leaders and flocks are not under grace and they are not in Christ.

Those under grace and in Christ would not be found any where near those traditional churches.

Those people in traditional christian churches are there to get the path to Truth which will take them into Grace and Christ.

They are seeking the path to Truth.

They are celled there to get the path to salvation and deliverance. However many are called but few make it, i.e. few are chosen, i.e. few graduate.

Indeed the very great majority of them are misled. No one in traditional Christianity ever seem to get the path to Truth, Grace and Christ in those churches.

They are all kept under the law instead. And this does nothing for their spiritual development and their coming onto Grace and their coming onto Christ. Nothing.

All that happens there is that their physical behavior is regulated and managed through the law and canons.

Traditional Christian churches are no more than schoolmasters or law enforcement agencies. They have nothing to do with salvation and deliverance.

The have all been misinformed by Peter. Erroneous Christian ideas of Peter is at the foundation of all of traditional Christianity on earth, everywhere, at this time.




Last edited by Gurucam; February 8th, 2012 at 12:51 PM..
   
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