[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by JonahofAkron

Actually, you've told all in so many words that you are right and we are wrong. This is the basis for a debate.

From as early as post # 33 to 36 I concluded that your idea of a debate is to dismiss my post with a few unrelated comments without actually responding to my conclusions.

In fact you have not responded to my conclusions in post # 33. You seem to simply dance around without addressing the essential point in that post.

Also you keep introducing something called Torah .... I do not know Torah or about Torah and I did not make any reference to Torah.

I had and still have no choice but to conclude that you hold your view and I hold mine, in a civil manner.

I am not familiar with what constitute a debate to you. I tried but you dismiss me with your one line replies which evades the essential, simple and straightforward point in my most elementary and straight forward post # 33, i.e. our first meeting to debate. Based on this, I do not know where to proceed with you in a debate.

You seem to want to pass over this point without addressing it and proceed to another point. I perceive that what you are attempting is not a debate but a sneaky try 'to pull the wool over my eyes' so as to sell me some of your ideas which seem to be lemons.

So I have to assume that you are too lettered and/or schooled for me.

As simple as I might be, I do wish to hold my views with all my own certainty, until my I.Q. improves and I can see your view with at least equal or better certainty.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Gurucam

One is never asked by God to do that which is not within one's own spiritual nature.

The Spirit makes intercession with God on our behalf in accordance with the ideas, beliefs and interests of our pre-birth spirits and the will of God. The Spirit of Jesus comes up with a direction and service in the body of Christ for each child of God which is in accordance with the ideas, beliefs and interests of our pre-birth spirits and the will of God.

This is how all things works together for the good of all who are called to His purpose. Indeed, according to the will of God, children of God are called to sever God's purpose with the particular gift or gifts of the Spirit which they posses. And it is all preordained, this why one is asked to search one's heart. This is in order to become reacquainted with one's preordained mission in the body of Christ. This is the length and width of the message in Romans: 8 verses: 26 to 30

Therefore one is never called by the Spirit to do any thing that is not in absolute accordance with one's own spirit.

Under the organization of the Spirit of Jesus only those who love the idea of settling things through wars, will be called to kill in wars.

My mission in the body of Christ, at this time, is to provide Truth which will purify Christianity. This is something that is my natural inclination and part of my pre-birth spirit.

I was preordained by God to this mission on earth when God knew me only in my spirit, in heaven. Then He predestine me to be first born on earth, from heaven, among many brethren.

I am not inclined to kill anyone. However some people love wars and the ideas of fighting in wars. This the drive of some people pre-birth spirit. Under the organization of Christians among themselves, these people will find their expression of self and their fulfillment as members of armies.

This is every one in Christ is called to their appointment, by the Spirit of Jesus, in the body of Christ.

Worry not the Spirit will have you doing precisely what you love to do in your hearts in accordance with the need of God, at any point in time.

The body of Christ is about God's children serving their own spirit and also serving the will of God with their every action. The Spirit of Jesus organizes this reality perfectly.

I don't think anyone should, as you say, "sever" their relationship with God. That is not what any of us is called to. We should serve God, not our self.

You say you have a pre-birth spirit. You also say, and this is anti-Christ, "Then He predestine me to be first born on earth, from heaven, among many brethren." This is an allusion to scripture and applies to Jesus Christ, and you are not Christ.

Romans 8:29 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he (Christ) might be the firstborn among many brethren (those he foreknew and predestined).

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I don't think anyone should, as you say, "sever" their relationship with God. That is not what any of us is called to. We should serve God, not our self.

I am sorry. That is a mistake on my part, the word 'sever' should be serve.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You say you have a pre-birth spirit.

Yes. We all do. I was brought forth to earth as a child onto God through a sexual procreative act which resulted from my parents being led into it, by the mind of the Spirit as discerned within their own hearts or spirits and not by only urgings of their flesh as regulated by Ten Commandments laws. This is in accordance with marriages, procreative sex and the fruits of such things and the techniques for bring forth children of God (instead of children of the flesh), adultery and coveting, as revealed in Romans: 7 verse: 1 to 6. These are focus and topics in Romans: 7 verse: 1 to 6

Here Jesus is on the topic of marriages and the fruits of marriage.
He indicates that children are brought forth and not created. This means that they existed before they were brought forth through normal sexual procreation.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You also say, and this is anti-Christ,

Exactly what did I say that is antichrist? No, not at all read on:

Originally Posted by Untellectual

"Then He predestine me to be first born on earth, from heaven, among many brethren." This is an allusion to scripture and applies to Jesus Christ, and you are not Christ.

I am in Christ. Those in Christ (i.e. Christians) differs in no way from Jesus when he was on earth in a human physical body, except that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ. This is the only exception. Everything else about Jesus applies to all Christians. Those who die as authentic Christians rise, in a few days, to be in heaven (with God) like Jesus did. They rise to be like angels (i.e. being without physical bodies) in heaven. They rise in their spirits. God knew them (their spirits) when they were Christians on earth and God continues to know them in heaven, (in their spirits) after they rise to be like angels in haven. And like Jesus they can return to earth from heaven, as born children of God, under God's predestination. They return to serve God in accordance with their preexisting spirits which God knew in heaven before they were predestined by Him, to return to earth.

This is how I came to earth.

I have long been aware of this Truth and I do not deny myself nor do I deny this entitlement. This makes me a born child of God with a preordained God given mission in the body of Christ. A mission for God that befit my birth from heaven (like Jesus). There are others who have come to earth in this manner. However we are among the few among those who believe that they are Christians, in terms of numbers on earth. Many are are not among those who perceive themselves to be Christians. Wheresoever they are they are born Christians or born children of God.

God's kingdom of heaven has been taken away from those in traditional Christianity and given to these who are authentic Christians. They are the ones who embraced the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts or spirits and became adopted children of God. Also when they died, they are the one who rose to be like angles in heaven. Then they were the one who were predestine by God to be like Jesus and return to earth, from heaven, to serve God's agenda (on earth) in accordance with their preexisting spirits. They were preordained to be first born among many brethren. They are the (live and proven) fruits of Christianity. They are authentic Christians. They are not the adopted variety. They are not children of the flesh. They are the proven fruits of Christianity. God's kingdom of heaven is theirs, it is already given to them. I am among them. I was born a child of God.

We are many in the world but few among those called Christians and those in traditional Christianity. The very great majority of us are out side mainstream or traditional Christianity which is really Moses-ism. Traditional Christianity is a whole lot of people i.e. billions. They are not a few they are not chosen few. They are all under the law and the letter. They are therefore, not under grace of God and not in Christ.

On the other hand there are adopted children of God. These are born on earth as children of the flesh (not as children of God) and at best, after their birth, they can embrace the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts so that they might become adopted children of God. Those children of the flesh who embrace the Spirit of Jesus and are led by it become adopted children of God. They are not born children of God until they die and rise to be like angels in heaven and are predestined by God, to return to earth from heaven, as Jesus.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Romans 8:29 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he (Christ) might be the firstborn among many brethren (those he foreknew and predestined).

This applies to born children of God as opposed to adopted children of God.

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is on the topic of marriages, adultery, coveting, bringing forth fruits of marriages (i.e. children), being led by the law and being led by the Spirit.

These revelations also reveals that there are two approaches to bringing forth children i.e. fruits of marriage.

These revelations relates to marriages (among unaware people) which are held together by the law as compared to procreative unions which were created by the urgings of the Spirit and which procreative unions are also held together by the Spirit.

It is about being led by one's flesh under regulations of the law as opposed to being led by one's spirit under guidance of the Spirit.

The message here is that under the former only children of the flesh (i.e. as fruits onto death) are brought forth. In the latter only children of God (as fruits onto God) are brought forth.

This is the fullness of that revelation (i.e. Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7), nothing is (conveniently) left unrecognized and not considered also nothing is added.

We are told that when Christians die, they rise to be like angels in heaven. There God continue to know them and predestine them to return to earth from heaven like Jesus. They are to be first first born among many.

They are brought forth from heaven to earth as born children of God i.e. as a fruits onto God in accordance with Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7

Those who are not aware of this Truth, totally fail to have children of God born or brought forth into their families and/or among them. All they get are children of the flesh.

There are those among traditional Christians who hold the belief that every one is born as children of the flesh. They and theirs, never bring forth any born children of God. God is not mocked. Men gets things according to his beliefs, for that is all that he can handle.




.

[YahuShuan]

Boy G, you're not conceited, you're convinced. No words that comes from us will be able to get through the demonic influence you have chosen to invite. The spirit of anti-Messiah is spinning you topsy turvy and your ears are closed tight. I want to help, but I must admit I can't. Because it is YOUR CHOICE to either accept what Yah says, or wait until you stand before Him and He say..."WHAT DID I SAY?" And sends you to your room. He'll be in, in a minute. Then maybe you'll hear Him say something like, "Why were you beating on them, I sent them with MY WORDS, and they gave them to you and sent you to go get more, but you said "I do not listen". Who are you to tell ME you won't listen? TO MY WORDS!

I think I don't even want to be in that hallway nearby your room dude. ("go into your chambers for just a little while" is how Yeshua said it...But I'm sure you think there was absolutely no reason why HE sai about "few stripes" and "many stripes"...You might want to go see what the full ramifications ot the word "condemned" are. It just don't mean hell bubby. And you might just want to find out the meaning of "least in the Kindom" too. Why be either when you don't have to, and all you have to do is agree with Yah's Words, say you're sorry for not listening to Him, and then bring forth fruits meet for repentance BY obeying what HE said. That would break the curse which is upon you, that came, for trusting in men...instead of Yah.

THAT'S what it's gonna take G. Like me, your bumble is in your humble too. Matter of fact, I reckon it's what is wrong with all who say "we do not listen"...THEY THEMSELVES are in the way, of being in His Way. Cut the pulpiteer strings fully G. Tie on the Chains of Loving Yah. Admit the truth...YOU AIN'T NOTHIN. And neither is what YOU think.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

Boy G, you're not conceited, you're convinced. No words that comes from us will be able to get through the demonic influence you have chosen to invite.

Are you not also convinced of your beliefs?

Your simple mention of 'us' divide us into 'many' and 'few'.

You seem to rely so much on being with the big group.

This information is the spirit (or unseen message) in your statement. You do not intend for me to focus on the spirit but on the letter, of your statement.

However it is in the spirit that Truth resides. The spirit in your statement reveals your actual belief, which in this case is that all of you cannot be wrong because your ideas are held and shared by all of Traditional Christianity.

I cannot help it, I 'see' what I 'see'. I cannot deny my self.

And indeed the KJV N.T. has something to say about many and few which one cannot ignore.

As a Christian, before I can even consider the letter of your statement, the spirit of statement jumps out and hits me. This conveys that you are among the many and only a few will know Truth. This is the first thing that gives me reservations about accepting your guidance and your ideas.

The next thing that the spirit of your statement reveals is your bias or preconceived ideas or entrenched conditioning. These come from the leadership of the group of many that you are so clearly a part off and which you also clearly esteem. These biases or conditioning are inevitably present in what you want to say and what you say. This tells me that you would not have a view that is authentically your own. This tells me, with the certainty of gravity and taxes, that you will simply be parroting a sales pitch (in this case some idea about Christianity) which was conditioned into your head by your leader. It is hardly sensible to debate some one who is not authentically himself.

Fact is Christians have a direct, individual intuitive communion with God though the Spirit of Jesus from within their own hearts or spirit. This is what I know, therefore how can I be taken in with any letter offerings of yours especially since these come to you, not from your own intuitive knowing through the Spirit but from something which you were told in church by a priest or a pope?

I discern intuitively that you are not an authentic Christan, you are not genuinely Christian. You seem every bit a Moses-ian.

Therefore before we can even start a lettered debate we must clear up these things which I discerned intuitively, from the spirit of your few words.

Therefore, if I seek to now (or first) introduce the idea behind Jesus' statement 'many are called and few chosen' it is because this is the point you need to addressed as discerned from the central Spiritual theme in your statement. This is not the letter theme of your statement. I do not concern my self with letter. Letters strike out the life of any message.

Also if I seek to have you search your own heart or spirit to become authentic yourself, it is because this is also what is lacking in you as revealed by the central Spiritual theme in your statement

Christians naturally and spontaneously discern and address the spirit in all things and are not too bothered by the letter, even in statements.

I am therefore simply being my Christian self.

Therefore if I 'see' (i.e. intuitively discern) that many will be the ones misguided about Truth and I 'see' (i.e. intuitively discern) that you all are among the many, must I not listen to and be guided by my own spirit/intuitive discernment?

I also 'see' very many things about your approach to knowing Truth and your ideas about Truth which are contrary to KJV N.T. revelations of Truth. I cannot deny these and simply embrace you ideas which seem erroneous.

Where as the letter of your, mine or anyone's statement may be erroneous or deceptive in Truth, the spirit in one's statement reveals Truth at all time.

One who seeks Truth can and must only recognize the spirit in the statements of others.

Of course those who seek less than Truth can and will be into letters.

[Gurucam]

.

YahuShuan,

Jesus speaking through Paul confirmed that the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 6)

Would you accept that this is the same things as: the scriptures killeth where as the Spirit giveth life?

Scriptures confirm that letters and scriptures (i.e. physically delivered words from God) are the same thing.

John: 7 verses: 15 & 16 The Jews marveled at Jesus who was delivering scriptures and said: How come this man know the letter, i.e. the scriptures, and he never studied the scriptures? They were speaking about scriptural doctrines which Jesus was delivering. They called these letters. They asked how knowest this man letters? Jesus answered them and said My doctrines is not mine but God's. Therefore Jesus was delivering scriptures or the word of God to them through physical speech and they called that letters. The point is that in these two verses, the Jews, gave us very clear confirmation that scriptures are called letters.

Click on this:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...53#post2944453

and then,

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...98#post2943798


Truth is told!

Now you can also rise to heaven like these guys who know Truth and is led by Truth.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Gurucam

[color="Blue"]I am sorry. That is a mistake on my part, the word 'sever' should be serve.

Okay.

Yes. We all do. I was brought forth to earth as a child onto God through a sexual procreative act which resulted from my parents being led into it, by the mind of the Spirit as discerned within their own hearts or spirits and not by only urgings of their flesh as regulated by Ten Commandments laws. This is in accordance with marriages, procreative sex and the fruits of such things and the techniques for bring forth children of God (instead of children of the flesh), adultery and coveting, as revealed in Romans: 7 verse: 1 to 6. These are focus and topics in Romans: 7 verse: 1 to 6

Here Jesus is on the topic of marriages and the fruits of marriage.
He indicates that children are brought forth and not created. This means that they existed before they were brought forth through normal sexual procreation.

Exactly what did I say that is antichrist? No, not at all read on:

I am in Christ. Those in Christ (i.e. Christians) differs in no way from Jesus when he was on earth in a human physical body, except that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ. This is the only exception. Everything else about Jesus applies to all Christians. Those who die as authentic Christians rise, in a few days, to be in heaven (with God) like Jesus did. They rise to be like angels (i.e. being without physical bodies) in heaven. They rise in their spirits. God knew them (their spirits) when they were Christians on earth and God continues to know them in heaven, (in their spirits) after they rise to be like angels in haven. And like Jesus they can return to earth from heaven, as born children of God, under God's predestination. They return to serve God in accordance with their preexisting spirits which God knew in heaven before they were predestined by Him, to return to earth.

This is how I came to earth.

I have long been aware of this Truth and I do not deny myself nor do I deny this entitlement. This makes me a born child of God with a preordained God given mission in the body of Christ. A mission for God that befit my birth from heaven (like Jesus). There are others who have come to earth in this manner. However we are among the few among those who believe that they are Christians, in terms of numbers on earth. Many are are not among those who perceive themselves to be Christians. Wheresoever they are they are born Christians or born children of God.

God's kingdom of heaven has been taken away from those in traditional Christianity and given to these who are authentic Christians. They are the ones who embraced the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts or spirits and became adopted children of God. Also when they died, they are the one who rose to be like angles in heaven. Then they were the one who were predestine by God to be like Jesus and return to earth, from heaven, to serve God's agenda (on earth) in accordance with their preexisting spirits. They were preordained to be first born among many brethren. They are the (live and proven) fruits of Christianity. They are authentic Christians. They are not the adopted variety. They are not children of the flesh. They are the proven fruits of Christianity. God's kingdom of heaven is theirs, it is already given to them. I am among them. I was born a child of God.

We are many in the world but few among those called Christians and those in traditional Christianity. The very great majority of us are out side mainstream or traditional Christianity which is really Moses-ism. Traditional Christianity is a whole lot of people i.e. billions. They are not a few they are not chosen few. They are all under the law and the letter. They are therefore, not under grace of God and not in Christ.

On the other hand there are adopted children of God. These are born on earth as children of the flesh (not as children of God) and at best, after their birth, they can embrace the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts so that they might become adopted children of God. Those children of the flesh who embrace the Spirit of Jesus and are led by it become adopted children of God. They are not born children of God until they die and rise to be like angels in heaven and are predestined by God, to return to earth from heaven, as Jesus.

This applies to born children of God as opposed to adopted children of God.

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is on the topic of marriages, adultery, coveting, bringing forth fruits of marriages (i.e. children), being led by the law and being led by the Spirit.

These revelations also reveals that there are two approaches to bringing forth children i.e. fruits of marriage.

These revelations relates to marriages (among unaware people) which are held together by the law as compared to procreative unions which were created by the urgings of the Spirit and which procreative unions are also held together by the Spirit.

It is about being led by one's flesh under regulations of the law as opposed to being led by one's spirit under guidance of the Spirit.

The message here is that under the former only children of the flesh (i.e. as fruits onto death) are brought forth. In the latter only children of God (as fruits onto God) are brought forth.

This is the fullness of that revelation (i.e. Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7), nothing is (conveniently) left unrecognized and not considered also nothing is added.

We are told that when Christians die, they rise to be like angels in heaven. There God continue to know them and predestine them to return to earth from heaven like Jesus. They are to be first first born among many.

They are brought forth from heaven to earth as born children of God i.e. as a fruits onto God in accordance with Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7

Those who are not aware of this Truth, totally fail to have children of God born or brought forth into their families and/or among them. All they get are children of the flesh.

There are those among traditional Christians who hold the belief that every one is born as children of the flesh. They and theirs, never bring forth any born children of God. God is not mocked. Men gets things according to his beliefs, for that is all that he can handle.

You are wrong and did not accept my correction of what you said.

[YahuShuan]

G...I'm done. You didn't care to hear.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Okay.You are wrong and did not accept my correction of what you said.

[color="Blue"]

I can accept your correction, eventually, after a few steps, if you tell me which of the following words are not mentioned in Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7:

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is on the topic of marriages, husband, adultery, being loosed from one's husband, being married to another,, being called an adulteress, not being adulteress when one marries another, coveting, lust, bringing forth fruits onto God, being under the law and being led by the Spirit, dead to the law by the body of Christ, bringing forth fruits onto death, when one was in the flesh one was led by the law and one brought forth fruits onto death, now one should be married to another, then when one is led by the Spirit one will bring forth fruits onto God, now one should leave one's old marriage which was under law and marry another.

These revelations also reveals that there are two approaches to bringing forth fruits.

Indeed all these words are in those small set of seven verses. All of these words can be and are, related to carnal and non carnal sexual knowledge of the opposite sex.

In what way then, can 'the fruits' mentioned there cannot be also related to 'the fruits of carnal and none carnal sex'?

This revelation is about bring forth children under the Old system (i.e. under the law) and bring forth children under the new system (i.e. under the Spirit).

A New persons is led by the Spirit into every thing. In this way they always bring forth fruits onto God. This is the precise instruction about being led into one's procreative sexual act by the Spirit and not by the law, so as to bring forth children of God and not children of the flesh.

Traditional Christians have been deprived of this wisdom or Truth for all of the past 2000 odd years.

Every thing here is connected to and drowning in, the idea of marriage, husband wife and fruits there off.

What here, in that small set of just 7 verses, is not intertwined in marriage, husband wife and fruits there off?

The big question is don't you hold that humans can and should, be led into their sexual procreative act by the Spirit?

These verses clearly says that those who are led under the law bring forth fruits on death. And those who are led by the Spirit bring forth fruits onto God.

Are you promoting that this does not apply to our human procreative sexual act? Children of God are led by the Spirit (re. Romans: 8 verse: 14). Are you saying that they this does not apply to their sex act but to every thing else??????

Are you really going to deny this important, clear and simple revelation, simply to prop up Old misguided interpretations of scriptures by one who was identified by Jesus to be Satan? Are you really???????

Are you saying that children of God (i.e. Christians) cannot have procreative that is motivated by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for them to pray for, say and do?

We are told in all clarity that Abraham had two sons. One was born after the promise i.e. under the urgings of the Spirit. And the other under the urgings of the flesh.

Therefore humans can bring forth two types of children. Or at least, the seeds of Abraham can do so.

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is a revelations of the technique for bringing forth these two types of children.

Shouldn't the people know this Truth?

Careful, you can be Satan (like Peter) and not know it, so hold your peace.

[YahuShuan]

Originally Posted by Gurucam

.

YahuShuan,

Jesus speaking through Paul confirmed that the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 6)

Would you accept that this is the same things as: the scriptures killeth where as the Spirit giveth life?

Scriptures confirm that letters and scriptures (i.e. physically delivered words from God) are the same thing.

Click on this:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...53#post2944453

and then,

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...98#post2943798


Truth is told!

Now you can also rise to heaven like these guys who know Truth and is led by Truth.

You asked: "Would you accept that this is the same things as: the scriptures killeth where as the Spirit giveth life?"

No, the Scriptures do not kill. Yes the Spirit of Yahuweh brings life. But it is not the law that kills...It is the disobedience of it that brings death to the sinners who does not repent. STILL. All throughout Scripture Abba tells us to repent, and "turn from your wicked ways to be saved". Wherein, "wicked ways" are always violation of Torah of Yahuweh. Sin is "trangression of the TORAH", does Paul say we are to keep sinning? Noooooooooooooooooo. Paul said "Yah forbid!" And we are told then that if we keep on "violating the Torah" SINNING, that we are stomping on the Blood of the Lamb. So for the most part, you telling me I am wrong for having a heart like David about the Torah of Yahuweh, is like you are spitting on the whole nine yards of Scripture, including the Messiah's sufferings death, and His resurrection wherein HE "expounded of Himself from the Torah the Psalms and the Prophets".

It's like I'm seeing Scrooge adding links to his own chains watching you interpret Scriptures for yourself. ASK THE FATHER. If you have been...then shut up and listen TO HIM. If you haven't been, then it is no wonder "there is no daylight" in you. It's like, what part of "TO BE SAVED" do you people not get?

[YahuShuan]

Look up ALL the times in the WHOLE BIBLE, where the PHRASE ... "TO BE SAVED" is. You'll begin to understand what the "Torah of Yahuweh's MOUTH" is. I stand in agreement with King David's thoughts in Psalms 119. Fault me on that.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

Look up ALL the times in the WHOLE BIBLE, where the PHRASE ... "TO BE SAVED" is. You'll begin to understand what the "Torah of Yahuweh's MOUTH" is. I stand in agreement with King David's thoughts in Psalms 119. Fault me on that.

The letter has surely killeth you.

Try the Spirit for life.

The Spirit of Jesus was sent by God into you heart so that you might become an adopted child of God.

God did not sent this Spirit (which can save and deliver you) into the Bible and those other books which you seem to be preoccupied with.

There is only death to be had from letters.

You are inviting me to death, to being killeth.

The bible is there. one can choose it. However the bible also confirms that it is letters and it killeth. So the choice is yours. If you delight in letters then (the choice is yours) go ahead and be killeth.

The value that scriptures hold for you is the kind that killeth. The scriptures have another value. It can also tell you how not to die, how not to be 'killeth'.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

Look up ALL the times in the WHOLE BIBLE, where the PHRASE ... "TO BE SAVED" is. You'll begin to understand what the "Torah of Yahuweh's MOUTH" is. I stand in agreement with King David's thoughts in Psalms 119. Fault me on that.

Our inheritance is hidden within the law, catch is if you do not understand it you cannot pray for it, and if you do not pray for it you may not get it.

1 Peter 1:10
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Gurucam

[color="Blue"]

I can accept your correction, eventually, after a few steps, if you tell me which of the following words are not mentioned in Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7:

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is on the topic of marriages, husband, adultery, being loosed from one's husband, being married to another,, being called an adulteress, not being adulteress when one marries another, coveting, lust, bringing forth fruits onto God, being under the law and being led by the Spirit, dead to the law by the body of Christ, bringing forth fruits onto death, when one was in the flesh one was led by the law and one brought forth fruits onto death, now one should be married to another, then when one is led by the Spirit one will bring forth fruits onto God, now one should leave one's old marriage which was under law and marry another.

These revelations also reveals that there are two approaches to bringing forth fruits.

Indeed all these words are in those small set of seven verses. All of these words can be and are, related to carnal and non carnal sexual knowledge of the opposite sex.

In what way then, can 'the fruits' mentioned there cannot be also related to 'the fruits of carnal and none carnal sex'?

This revelation is about bring forth children under the Old system (i.e. under the law) and bring forth children under the new system (i.e. under the Spirit).

A New persons is led by the Spirit into every thing. In this way they always bring forth fruits onto God. This is the precise instruction about being led into one's procreative sexual act by the Spirit and not by the law, so as to bring forth children of God and not children of the flesh.

Traditional Christians have been deprived of this wisdom or Truth for all of the past 2000 odd years.

Every thing here is connected to and drowning in, the idea of marriage, husband wife and fruits there off.

What here, in that small set of just 7 verses, is not intertwined in marriage, husband wife and fruits there off?

The big question is don't you hold that humans can and should, be led into their sexual procreative act by the Spirit?

These verses clearly says that those who are led under the law bring forth fruits on death. And those who are led by the Spirit bring forth fruits onto God.

Are you promoting that this does not apply to our human procreative sexual act? Children of God are led by the Spirit (re. Romans: 8 verse: 14). Are you saying that they this does not apply to their sex act but to every thing else??????

Are you really going to deny this important, clear and simple revelation, simply to prop up Old misguided interpretations of scriptures by one who was identified by Jesus to be Satan? Are you really???????

Are you saying that children of God (i.e. Christians) cannot have procreative that is motivated by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for them to pray for, say and do?

We are told in all clarity that Abraham had two sons. One was born after the promise i.e. under the urgings of the Spirit. And the other under the urgings of the flesh.

Therefore humans can bring forth two types of children. Or at least, the seeds of Abraham can do so.

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is a revelations of the technique for bringing forth these two types of children.

Shouldn't the people know this Truth?

Careful, you can be Satan (like Peter) and not know it, so hold your peace.

I'm not talking about sex.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I'm not talking about sex.

O.K.

Is sex a bad thing for you? Is it not to be mentioned, for you?

Fact is Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is not only speaking about sex but all of the following:

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is on the topic of marriages, husband, adultery, being loosed from one's husband, being married to another,, being called an adulteress, not being adulteress when one marries another, coveting, lust, bringing forth fruits onto God, being under the law and being led by the Spirit, dead to the law by the body of Christ, bringing forth fruits onto death, when one was in the flesh one was led by the law and one brought forth fruits onto death, now one should be married to another in accordance with the Spirit, then when one is led by the Spirit one will bring forth fruits onto God, now one should leave one's old marriage which was under law and marry another.

These revelations also reveals that there are two approaches to bringing forth fruits.

Indeed all these words are in those small set of seven verses. All of these words can be and are, related to carnal and non carnal sexual knowledge of the opposite sex.

In what way then, can 'the fruits' mentioned there cannot be also related to 'the fruits of carnal and none carnal procreative sex'?

This revelation is about bring forth children under the Old system (i.e. under the law) and bring forth children under the new system (i.e. under the Spirit).

A New persons is led by the Spirit into every thing. Children of God are led by the Spirit (re. Romans: 8 verse: 14). In this way they always bring forth fruits onto God. Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is the precise instruction about being led into one's procreative sexual act by the Spirit and not by the law, so as to bring forth children of God and not children of the flesh.

Traditional Christians have been deprived of this wisdom or Truth for all of the past 2000 odd years.

Every thing here is connected to and drowning in, the idea of marriage, husband wife and fruits there off.

What here, in that small set of just 7 verses, is not intertwined in marriage, husband wife and fruits there off?

The big question is don't you hold that humans can and should, be led into their sexual procreative act by the Spirit?

These verses clearly says that those who are led under the law bring forth fruits on death. And those who are led by the Spirit bring forth fruits onto God.

Are you promoting that this does not apply to our human procreative sexual act? Children of God are led by the Spirit (re. Romans: 8 verse: 14). Are you saying 'being led by the Spirit' does not apply to their sex act but to every thing else??????

Are you really going to deny this important, clear and simple revelation, simply to prop up Old misguided interpretations of scriptures by one who was identified by Jesus to be Satan? Are you really???????

Are you saying that children of God (i.e. Christians) cannot have procreative that is motivated by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for them to pray for, say and do?

We are told in all clarity that Abraham had two sons. One was born after the promise i.e. under the urgings of the Spirit. And the other under the urgings of the flesh.

Therefore humans can bring forth two types of children. Or at least, the seeds of Abraham can do so.

Romans: 7 verses: 1 to 7 is a revelations of the technique for bringing forth these two types of children.

Shouldn't the people know this Truth? Doesn't this revelation have important information with respect to human physical procreative sex? Shouldn't people know how and why Abraham had two different types of children, one desirable and the other not desirable??? It has to do with how and by what, Abraham was led into his procreative sexual act.

Careful, you can be Satan (like Peter) and not know it, so hold your peace if you are going to dissect parts of this revelation and thrown it out.

The idea of being married to Jesus is totally misrepresented, by Peter and his band.

Now we must know Jesus in His Spirit. We must never be without awareness of Jesus in His Spirit within our own heart or spirit. Also we must be led into all our works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for us to pray for say an do, as discerned within our individual hearts or spirit. In this way we are married to Jesus. We are never without Jesus, in His Spirit.

This means that every marriage between humans is a three some made up of two human and Jesus, in His Spirit as discerned within one's own heart or spirit. Fact is every association (i.e. every business partnership, friendship or other) for a Christian is at least always a threesome. At least two human person and Jesus in His Spirit, are always involved.

This means that even when a Christian is having procreative sex with another human of the opposite sex, Jesus is there. Jesus has initiated this action and He is leading this action and the Spirit of Jesus is also enabling God to be part of it. The Spirit of Jesus has led us into an action which conforms to precisely what God willed for that Christian. This is how we are able to bring forth children of God to earth from heaven. If one is not aware of the Spirit of Jesus one cannot be led this Spirit, then one would be led into one's sexual act, by one's own thinking and own ideas (like Peter when he was discerned to be Satan by Jesus). Then one brings forth only children of the flesh.

A very sad predicament and end befalls those who do not know how to bring forth children of God and therefore do not bring forth children of God. Children of God are fruits of God. The kingdom of heaven is taken away from them and given to those bringing forth children of God (re. Matthews: 21 verse: 43).