ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
The Golden Rule, as stated, is unique, but how would that make it true?
The golden rule is proven true by it's near universality
The golden rule (in some form or another) clearly is an intuitive, global truth
the deity of jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the exclusive mediation by jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the substitutionary atonement by jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the imputed righteousness of jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the innerancy of the bible is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the divine inspiration of the bible is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
etc, etc, etc
THE GOLDEN RULE
CHRISTIANITY- "DO TO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO TO YOU" LK 6:31
CONFUCIANISM-"DO NOT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD NOT LIKE YOURSELF" (ANALECTS X11:2)
TAOISM- A GOOD MAN WILL "REGARD [OTHERS] GAINS AS IF THEY WERE HIS OWN AND THEIR LOSSES IN THE SAME WAY" (THAI SHANG, 3)
ZOROASTRIANISM-"THAT NATURE ONLY IS GOOD WHEN IT SHALL NOT DO TO ANOTHER WHATEVER IS NOT GOOD FOR ITS OWN SELF" (DEDISTAN-I-DINIK 94:4)
HINDUISM-"ONE SHOULD NEVER DO THAT TO ANOTHER WHICH ONE REGARDS AS INJURIOUS TO ONE'S OWN SELF. (ANUSHANA PARVA, 113:7)
JAINISM- ONE SHOULD GO ABOUT "TREATING ALL CREATURES IN THE WORLD AS HE HIMSELF WOULD BE TREATED" (KATANGA SUTRA, BK. 1, LECT. 11:33)
BUDDHISM-"AS A MOTHER CARES FOR HER SON, ALL HER DAYS, SO TOWARDS ALL LIVING THINGS A MAN'S MIND SHOULD BE ALL-EMBRACING" (SUTTA NIPATA, 149)
JUDAISM-"WHAT IS HATEFUL TO YOURSELF DO NOT DO TO YOUR FELLOW MAN" (BABYLONIAN TALMUD, SHABBATH 31A)
ISLAM- MUHAMMAD SAID "NO MAN IS A TRUE BELIEVER UNLESS HE DESIRES FOR HIS BROTHER THAT WHICH HE DESIRES FOR HIMSELF" (IBN MADJA, INTRODUCTION 9)
(Adapted from FOUR VIEWS ON SALVATION IN A PLURALISTIC WORLD, editors dennis okholm and timothy phillips)
The golden rule is proven true by it's near universality
Well, no. It's a value. You can prove that most people agree with the value. That much might be inarguably true. So the real question is: what do you mean by true?
Quote:
the deity of jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
Actually, Peter would disagree with you on that. So would every Christian who came to their particular faith by way of sudden insight/revelation. And they are most certainly found globally.
Quote:
the exclusive mediation by jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
Same answer as above and etc., etc., etc.
Quote:
THE GOLDEN RULE
CHRISTIANITY- "DO TO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO TO YOU" LK 6:31
Moral obligation attaches to our very being and requires our action. We are, none of us, islands.
Most of the rest, that don't come after the Rule are prohibitions or attitudinal. An important distinction so far as novelty is concerned.
When you look at the attached chart you will see the geographical spread of religion and see that the statements below are true
the deity of jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the exclusive mediation by jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the substitutionary atonement by jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the imputed righteousness of jesus is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the innerancy of the bible is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
the divine inspiration of the bible is a non-intuitive, not globally accepted teaching
There are pockets of christians in places where Christianity is not the dominate religion but no where are the christian teachings listed above intuitive/global like the Golden Rule.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
My summary of Guyver's statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
So, for you the christian paradigm best matches up with the world you see around you.
Now compare and contrast Guyver's statement with TomO's statement
The interesting thing here is that I don't think your summary of what Guyver said is quite spot on. This, of course, would best be answered by Guyver and perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but it seems to me what you drew from him is that, in essence, Guyver looked around and said to himself: "Yup, looks like Christianity to me therefore I believe."
If I'm not mistaken though what Guyver actually said was: "I was given Faith and Believed. Upon looking around came to the conclusion that my Faith was well founded."
This is not exactly the same thing.
Now...If I am mistaken about what either you or Guyver were intending to convey; please correct me and accept my apologies.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Slogan/motto:
Hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 07:42 PM
I've clearly already chosen a side but uh, I don't understand the point of this thread?
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different expressions of the same energy,
and they are all in communication with each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.
This whole is in all its parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine
- Robinson Jeffers
Truthfully, I think it's impressive and impactful relationships with living christians that draws people into the faith and sometimes christian apologetics helps to cement them into the faith after conversion.
Let me be very blunt - non-christians develop relationships with christians and almost subconsciously fear that those relationships will be jeopardized if they don't convert to the religion of their friend(s) and or family - so, those non-christians subtly convince themselves that what their friend(s) and or family believe is true. This process occurs in both children and adults.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
Let me be very blunt - non-christians develop relationships with christians and almost subconsciously fear that those relationships will be jeopardized if they don't convert to the religion of their friend(s) and or family - so, those non-christians subtly convince themselves that what their friend(s) and or family believe is true. This process occurs in both children and adults.
Sooo...Tell me; who was it that you were subconsciously "sucking up to" that is responsible for your Deism?
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Truthfully, I think it's impressive and impactful relationships with living christians that draws people into the faith and sometimes christian apologetics helps to cement them into the faith after conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
Let me be very blunt - non-christians develop relationships with christians and almost subconsciously fear that those relationships will be jeopardized if they don't convert to the religion of their friend(s) and or family - so, those non-christians subtly convince themselves that what their friend(s) and or family believe is true. This process occurs in both children and adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena
I've clearly already chosen a side but uh, I don't understand the point of this thread?
I want people to think hard about the underpinnings and reasons for the choice that they have already made.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
I want people to think hard about the underpinnings and reasons for the choice that they have already made.
Just out of curiosity; are you of the impression that there are not already those of us who do/have done this.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Sooo...Tell me; who was it that you were subconsciously "sucking up to" that is responsible for your Deism?
Remember, it is the exceptions to the "rule" that prove the "rule".
My Deism (and I'm not even a pure deist) conclusion was the result of a years long debate between me, myself and I and in the end - I won the debate.
I have no family, friends or co-workers who are deist or think like me in this matter but I am still loved by my wife, 4 adult children and my four grandchildren.
Since God works through nature, having a scientific explanation doesn't really say much of anything. There is a scientific explanation to the Plagues in Egypt, does that mean to say it wasn't by the Wrath of God?
This is where atheists kind of disappoint me a bit. When are they going to step beyond such material bias and progress into deeper aspects of reason and thought?
Ironically, the latter is what precisely breeds anti-theists.
Remember, it is the exceptions to the "rule" that prove the "rule".
My Deism (and I'm not even a pure deist) conclusion was the result of a years long debate between me, myself and I and in the end - I won the debate.
I have no family, friends or co-workers who are deist or think like me in this matter but I am still loved by my wife, 4 adult children and my four grandchildren.
In the almost 6 years I have been in this forum - some of that mostly internal debate has taken place here.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
Of course not - but occasionally verbalizing this stuff out loud here is helpful to others and to ourselves and is much cheaper than psychoanalysis.
True
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Moral obligation attaches to our very being and requires our action. We are, none of us, islands.
The interesting thing here is that I don't think your summary of what Guyver said is quite spot on. This, of course, would best be answered by Guyver and perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but it seems to me what you drew from him is that, in essence, Guyver looked around and said to himself: "Yup, looks like Christianity to me therefore I believe."
If I'm not mistaken though what Guyver actually said was: "I was given Faith and Believed. Upon looking around came to the conclusion that my Faith was well founded."
Linear Mode
