TOL Topic of the Day - Chime In!Every day we will post a new topic and we want to get your comments on that topic. The topic could be about literally anything from the vague to the specific, important or trivial. The TOL membership can take that topic and run with it!
Slogan/motto:
Hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
Reputation:
February 6th, 2012, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadish
Probably the same way identical twins turn out, i.e. seperate, autonomous individuals who have the same genes.
I think she's asking about the status of a soul.
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different expressions of the same energy,
and they are all in communication with each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.
This whole is in all its parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine
- Robinson Jeffers
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Is cloning immoral? I don't know, why would you want to clone people? To come with a perfect army of 7 footers? to clone geniuses? that stuff could lead to trouble.
I kind of like the fact we are all different because then we can actually celebrate differences. 1 of me is truly enough.
Interesting discussion, I'm clueless. I know of no verse for or against. Has anybody done a biblical study on this question?
how many of you would you like Lon? 10? lol just kidding. If people are naturally born with idiosyncrasies physically and mentally, then one view might say that is how God intended it - so that we might master the contradiction of us all being different from eachother.
Although it is also true that a perfect twin is a totally different person from their sibling mentally, nature has good reasons to not make too many physical clones I think so that we all don't start marrying relatives, catch the same disease, and can tell eachother apart.
Jeremiah 1:5 states, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
Clearly, we are told that God forms us, that He chooses how we are made. The traits we inherit aren't random, but chosen by God Himself. In the case of twins, He chooses for that to happen. With a clone, we would be choosing instead, and for that reason alone, it's wrong. Cloning is, in effect, trying to play at being God, which is what Satan has been trying to do from the beginning.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Is cloning immoral? I don't know, why would you want to clone people? To come with a perfect army of 7 footers? to clone geniuses? that stuff could lead to trouble.
I kind of like the fact we are all different because then we can actually celebrate differences. 1 of me is truly enough.
Right, I'm not sure that cloning is immoral, but I suspect that most of the motives, to do so in spite of the risks, might well be.
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
Last edited by Delmar; February 7th, 2012 at 04:22 AM.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Jeremiah 1:5 states, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
Clearly, we are told that God forms us, that He chooses how we are made.
I think it is possible that you are infering more than that verse is implying.
Quote:
The traits we inherit aren't random, but chosen by God Himself.
Did good choose who you married (or will marry)?
Quote:
In the case of twins, He chooses for that to happen.
I am not sure that I agree.
Quote:
With a clone, we would be choosing instead, and for that reason alone, it's wrong. Cloning is, in effect, trying to play at being God, which is what Satan has been trying to do from the beginning.
I do see this point to a degree.
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
Location: A bubble of my own self-satisfaction. Which is in the New Forest somewhere in Hampshire.
Rep Power: 85385
Agnostic
Left Winger
Slogan/motto:
Some that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to deal out justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
Reputation:
February 7th, 2012, 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena
I think she's asking about the status of a soul.
I know, I just don't see how the 'soul' of a clone would be any different to that of an identical twin or a test tube baby.
I dont think its immoral. Its the speculative ideas floating around about how clones could be used that is immoral. Treating them as anything less than a person would be immoral. And I think that without the use (like harvesting organs for replacements) then cloning humans would have a lot less interest.
"I believe in Christianity, as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
"Don't believe that there's nothing that's true, don't believe in this modern machine." Switchfoot
I dont think its immoral. Its the speculative ideas floating around about how clones could be used that is immoral. Treating them as anything less than a person would be immoral. And I think that without the use (like harvesting organs for replacements) then cloning humans would have a lot less interest.
The whole organ harvesting bit is good for science fiction but there are better ways to create organs for this use...
Theocrats are Social Darwinists.
Christianity has nothing applicable, appropriate, or worthwhile to offer the 21st century.
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder's Muse
That's the part that creeps me out. Spiritually, how would that work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dena
I think she's asking about the status of a soul.
Does anyone honestly think identical twins share a soul?
Why would a clone be any different?
When I say an exact copy of a person, I mean only their physical form and even then it wouldn't necessarily be exactly identical since even physical structure is affected by environmental exposure and experience.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
February 11th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmar
How would that work?
There's no reason you have to create a whole person to create organs.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 6th, 2012 09:40 AM
toldailytopic: Is human cloning immoral?
Before I answer that question lets look at what cloning is.
A. Identical twins are a natural form of cloning. When the cells inside the fertilized egg try to divide and multiply the egg splits creating two separate individuals. This can be artificially done to create twins triplets etc to be implanted into a mother that cannot otherwise have kids the normal way. The moral delemma arises when the lab ends up with throw away embryos, a waste of newly created human life.
B. The second type is Somatic Nuclear Cell Transfer. In natural reproduction the dividing ball of cells results from the union of the father's sperm and the mothers egg. In SNCT the egg cell's single set of chromosomes is removed and replaced with two sets of chromosomes from a somatic cell from the donor. The end result is a new individual the will grow into a exact genetic copy of the donor.
Is cloning itself immoral. Probably not. Bugs still need to be worked out of SNCT before it is used on humans. The ethical issues arise when new human life resulting from the procedures is discarded.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Linear Mode
