[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by MaryContrary

And, above all, it much more firmly assures them that those boundaries are there. Something I can't stress enough as incredibly important to a child. Perhaps as important as being loved in the first place. It's one thing to know you'll get a time out if you act out. It's quite another to know you'll get a spanking. I'm sure as I can be that knowing you'll get a spanking provides much more security to a child than negative reinforcement could even pretend to.

All my humble opinion, and born entirely out of my own personal experience and observation, of course.

Thanks, I appreciate your input. We agree on some things, not on others, but it's clear your stepson is loved. Even though we may have approached things differently in each of our two households, it looks like we've both raised some good kids, and not forgetting the grace of God in all things.

[MaryContrary]

Originally Posted by Granite

Or people who were beaten and horribly abused as children. Lack of corporal punishment has never been linked to criminality, as far as I know.

Article: Pro-Spanking Studies May Have Global Effect

Two recent analyses – one psychological, the other legal – may debunk lenient modern parenting the way the Climategate e-mail scandal has short circuited global warming alarmism.

A study entailing 2,600 interviews pertaining to corporal punishment, including the questioning of 179 teenagers about getting spanked and smacked by their parents, was conducted by Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Gunnoe’s findings, announced this week: “The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data.”

Those who were physically disciplined performed better than those who weren’t in a whole series of categories, including school grades, an optimistic outlook on life, the willingness to perform volunteer work, and the ambition to attend college, Gunnoe found. And they performed no worse than those who weren’t spanked in areas like early sexual activity, getting into fights, and becoming depressed. She found little difference between the sexes or races.

Another study published in the Akron Law Review last year examined criminal records and found that children raised where a legal ban on parental corporal punishment is in effect are much more likely to be involved in crime.

A key focus of the work of Jason M. Fuller of the University of Akron Law School was Sweden, which 30 years ago became the first nation to impose a complete ban on physical discipline and is in many respects “an ideal laboratory to study spanking bans,” according to Fuller.

Since the spanking ban, child abuse rates in Sweden have exploded over 500 percent, according to police reports. Even just one year after the ban took effect, and after a massive government public education campaign, Fuller found that “not only were Swedish parents resorting to pushing, grabbing, and shoving more than U.S. parents, but they were also beating their children twice as often.”

After a decade of the ban, “rates of physical child abuse in Sweden had risen to three times the U.S. rate” and “from 1979 to 1994, Swedish children under seven endured an almost six-fold increase in physical abuse,” Fuller’s analysis revealed.

“Enlightened” parenting also seems to have produced increased violence later. “Swedish teen violence skyrocketed in the early 1990s, when children that had grown up entirely under the spanking ban first became teenagers,” Fuller noted. “Preadolescents and teenagers under fifteen started becoming even more violent toward their peers. By 1994, the number of youth criminal assaults had increased by six times the 1984 rate.”

(source)

[MaryContrary]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Thanks, I appreciate your input. We agree on some things, not on others, but it's clear your stepson is loved. Even though we may have approached things differently in each of our two households, it looks like we've both raised some good kids, and not forgetting the grace of God in all things.

He's a good kid and I've really grown to love the little pain-in-the-butt teenager.

Also, now you've got me wanting a Valentine's Day themed avatar.

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by MaryContrary

Article: Pro-Spanking Studies May Have Global Effect

Interesting article. I have to clarify that I said in the beginning that spanking should be left to the discretion of the parent and there should be no gov't involvement unless there is an abuse situation. When spanking is outlawed by the state, it's a bad thing.

And hey, I like your avatar.

[The Berean]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Prisons are full of former children that were not given corporal punishment. I too was on the recieving end of the correction rod and I iz a rokit sientist.

Is this you, rocketman?

[The Berean]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

I did say earlier that it should be left up to the discretion of the parent, as long as it wasn't abusive, but that line could be a fuzzy one. I'd have to go back and see what my exact words were.

I'm not saying that parents who spank are bad parents. I am saying that I was not brought up that way and my children weren't brought up that way. I also said I wasn't against a "let me help you along" swat on the bottoms of younger kids.

I think there is a disconnect about what "spanking" really is. It can take many forms. I remember one time I was in public bathroom. A father brought his young son into the bathroom with him. The boy was probably about 2-3 years old. He was apparently acting up outside so the dad spanked him in the bathroom. From what I saw he didn't spank him very hard. On top of that the boy had one of those thick fluffy diapers on. I doubt he felt much actual physical pain. The boys still cried, probably more out of shock of being spanked. But the boy got the message.

[Granite]

Originally Posted by The Berean

I think there is a disconnect about what "spanking" really is. It can take many forms. I remember one time I was in public bathroom. A father brought his young son into the bathroom with him. The boy was probably about 2-3 years old. He was apparently acting up outside so the dad spanked him in the bathroom. From what I saw he didn't spank him very hard. On top of that the boy had one of those thick fluffy diapers on. I doubt he felt much actual physical pain. The boys still cried, probably more out of shock of being spanked. But the boy got the message.

Earlier I asked Mary to define what constituted a "beating" versus a "spanking." Nobody bit, so I'll try again. We talking a matter of seconds versus minutes? One blow or several? Black eye or welt? Seems like there's a question of degree, sure, but what constitutes the degree?

[The Berean]

Originally Posted by Granite

Earlier I asked Mary to define what constituted a "beating" versus a "spanking." Nobody bit, so I'll try again. We talking a matter of seconds versus minutes? One blow or several? Black eye or welt? Seems like there's a question of degree, sure, but what constitutes the degree?

If a child is receiving bruises and welts that is way, way, beyond spanking IMO. My parents spanks us with a belt for a few seconds. They never once hit us directly with their hands and they never bruised my siblings and me.

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by Granite

Or people who were beaten and horribly abused as children. Lack of corporal punishment has never been linked to criminality, as far as I know.

As far as you know, rocks created themselves out of nothing.

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Bear with me if you will, Nick. When you look at Strong's, the Hebrew word is shebet, rod is seen as a scepter, a mark of the ruler.
Is it possible to see rod in this way as more of a sign of authority than a physical enforcement?

So a septer will drive something from a child? Doesn't make sense, does it...

[Granite]

As far as you know, rocks created themselves out of nothing.

Uh, no. Can you address my point or do you want to keep on doing whatever it is you're doing?

[ebenz47037]

Originally Posted by Granite

Earlier I asked Mary to define what constituted a "beating" versus a "spanking." Nobody bit, so I'll try again. We talking a matter of seconds versus minutes? One blow or several? Black eye or welt? Seems like there's a question of degree, sure, but what constitutes the degree?

While I was spanked, I was also abused. My grandmother did the spanking. My mother and her boyfriends did the abusing. My grandmother would swat my butt when I did something wrong, without doing anymore harm than causing red skin and embarrassment for doing wrong. My mother would cuss at me as she slapped my face hard enough (several times in the same session) to make me have to lean my neck. Or, leaving a life-long scar from pouring hot grease on me. Or sending me to the emergency room because she had punched me too hard in the stomach. My step-father had my sister hold me down while he beat me up because she told him that I had held her down while the neighborhood kids beat her up (What actually happened was that she got beat up by a girl after school for calling her a derogatory word because she was black.). My mom's boyfriends would beat me (with their fists) for whatever reason they had for being mad at me.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by The Berean

Is this you, rocketman?

I'm the one in the middle with the pencil protector.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MaryContrary

Article: Pro-Spanking Studies May Have Global Effect

Two recent analyses – one psychological, the other legal – may debunk lenient modern parenting the way the Climategate e-mail scandal has short circuited global warming alarmism.

A study entailing 2,600 interviews pertaining to corporal punishment, including the questioning of 179 teenagers about getting spanked and smacked by their parents, was conducted by Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Gunnoe’s findings, announced this week: “The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data.”

Those who were physically disciplined performed better than those who weren’t in a whole series of categories, including school grades, an optimistic outlook on life, the willingness to perform volunteer work, and the ambition to attend college, Gunnoe found. And they performed no worse than those who weren’t spanked in areas like early sexual activity, getting into fights, and becoming depressed. She found little difference between the sexes or races.

Another study published in the Akron Law Review last year examined criminal records and found that children raised where a legal ban on parental corporal punishment is in effect are much more likely to be involved in crime.

A key focus of the work of Jason M. Fuller of the University of Akron Law School was Sweden, which 30 years ago became the first nation to impose a complete ban on physical discipline and is in many respects “an ideal laboratory to study spanking bans,” according to Fuller.

Since the spanking ban, child abuse rates in Sweden have exploded over 500 percent, according to police reports. Even just one year after the ban took effect, and after a massive government public education campaign, Fuller found that “not only were Swedish parents resorting to pushing, grabbing, and shoving more than U.S. parents, but they were also beating their children twice as often.”

After a decade of the ban, “rates of physical child abuse in Sweden had risen to three times the U.S. rate” and “from 1979 to 1994, Swedish children under seven endured an almost six-fold increase in physical abuse,” Fuller’s analysis revealed.

“Enlightened” parenting also seems to have produced increased violence later. “Swedish teen violence skyrocketed in the early 1990s, when children that had grown up entirely under the spanking ban first became teenagers,” Fuller noted. “Preadolescents and teenagers under fifteen started becoming even more violent toward their peers. By 1994, the number of youth criminal assaults had increased by six times the 1984 rate.”

(source)

Mary,

Do you have any qualms about presenting this Newsmax article that describes two "outlier" studies without referring to the overall contradictory results of similar research? Do you care that Gunnoes study was never actually published - apparently did not pass peer review?

How much confidence do you have in the correlational nature of the legal study? Could a third variable account for the greater aggression in teens?

Do you realize that the study in the OP was a meta-analysis of virtually all published studies on the topic?

Would someone here with plenty of cash can please access the actual OP research and post the details? It costs $25.

[Zeus]

WHAT'S THE GUNNOE SPANKING STUDY ALL ABOUT?

A study on corporal punishment of children by Marjorie Gunnoe, Ph.D. of Calvin College made headlines this week. Dr Gunnoe used data from Portraits of American Life, a new population study, to find out whether spanking is a risk factor in childhood. News reports said her research showed that children who were spanked were happier and more successful than children who were never spanked. Parents who believe in spanking and some of the media jumped on the opportunity to say that "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is confirmed.

The following information about the Gunnoe study can help you respond to news articles and to questions from the media. We hope you will share the following information with people who care about the safety and wellfare of children.

Gunnoe study shortcomings:

(1) The study is unpublished. It has not yet been accepted by a journal

which requires peer review and acceptance by other professionals in fields such as medicine, psychology or child development. Failure to be accepted for publications in professional journals can be an indicator that the process or the conclusions did not meet standards of scientific accuracy. The release of the findings through the general media, prior to any journal acceptance suggests the author has a more political than scientific intent.

(2) Beware "outlier" studies. Almost all studies done by researchers in

multiple higher learning settings find that corporal punishment of children is

harmful. Studies that go against current scientific findings are often picked up by the media. That should be a warning to the public to look at reports and positions on such issues from major medical, educational, and psychological organizations.

(3) The Gunnoe report is a small study. Studies with large numbers of

participants have a higher degree of scientific accuracy than studies with only a small number. News reports for which Dr. Gunnoe was interviewed said there were 2,600 participants in her study. In actuality, her conclusions were based on reports of only slightly more than 70 participants, a subset of participants in the larger study.

http://www.stophitting.com/index.php...t01returnid=51

[MaryContrary]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Mary,

Do you have any qualms about presenting this Newsmax article that describes two "outlier" studies without referring to the overall contradictory results of similar research? Do you care that Gunnoes study was never actually published - apparently did not pass peer review?

How much confidence do you have in the correlational nature of the legal study? Could a third variable account for the greater aggression in teens?

Do you realize that the study in the OP was a meta-analysis of virtually all published studies on the topic?

It's a news article. That's about all the weight I'm interested in giving it. Which I figure is enough, since the OP references one.

But, hey, in the meantime, if you're looking for something to do, you can answer to this. Up to you, though.