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Hebrews 6:18 (ASV)
18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us:
God so sovereignly controls all events, both mental and physical, that we have no choice but to obey Him.
Slogan/motto:
With great power comes great responsibility.
Reputation:
February 12th, 2012, 11:16 PM
Well played, friends. I've run into someone who believes that God and the Apostles have lied to us in minute ways and was confused because I'd never heard such an interpretation. Glad to hear it is only with the person I spoke with.
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
All this assuming there is a god who does lie but has the power to damn you.
Would you deny the liar god worship even though He threatened to send you to hell?
Very brave, or very stupid, or maybe both.
The question here is, is morality just doing what god wants, or is it a truth independent of god. If the omnipotent god does evil is it still evil? If god does evil are we morally bound to call him on it? "Bad god, no prayers for you!"
(It is intentional that for the purpose of this discussion that I do not capitalize "God". I wish to make it clear that I am talking about a hypothetical god not the one and only big G.)( I know I'm not brave and hope I'm not stupid.)
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
All this assuming there is a god who does lie but has the power to damn you.
Would you deny the liar god worship even though He threatened to send you to hell?
Very brave, or very stupid, or maybe both.
The question here is, is morality just doing what god wants, or is it a truth independent of god. If the omnipotent god does evil is it still evil? If god does evil are we morally bound to call him on it? "Bad god, no prayers for you!"
(It is intentional that for the purpose of this discussion that I do not capitalize "God". I wish to make it clear that I am talking about a hypothetical god not the one and only big G.)( I know I'm not brave and hope I'm not stupid.)
His rain falls on both the good and the evil, if they spit it out what can be done? He is coming to remove all the stumblingblocks...WE can ask HIM I'm sure you will know if it is a stupid question or not before then. He told Abraham, "stand like a man", if that is any help.
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Well played, friends. I've run into someone who believes that God and the Apostles have lied to us in minute ways and was confused because I'd never heard such an interpretation. Glad to hear it is only with the person I spoke with.
was that person referring to this passage?
Romans 3:7
to put that into perspective we have to know what constitutes a "lie" in the biblical sense, it is not the same as people in an Ann Frank novel saying "no there are not Jews here" to protect them.
The law specifically states what a lie is and how that differs from mans definition of the term, bearing of false witness against someone Exodus 20:16.
So what was Paul's false witness that furthered the gospel and against whom?
We know that Paul was fond of quoting Greek literature of his time in preaching, mostly sayings attributed to Zeus*, when talking to Greeks about God.
So was that it? was that his false witness "lie"?
*Acts 17:23 "Unknown God", Acts 17:28 "for in him we live and move and have our being^", Acts 17:29 "we are the offspring of God".
^ Epimenides' poem Cretica, Cleanthes Hymn to Zeus, etc etc.
I am curious to hear what your associate finds as lies of the Apostles, because Jesus did warn of such a thing happening, Matthew 24:5, John 5:43, so we should be on the alert for such a thing.
Can He? Can the Apostles or Prophets lie in order to lead us into Truth?
Why would he have to?
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
With great power comes great responsibility.
Reputation:
February 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremysdemo
was that person referring to this passage?
Romans 3:7
to put that into perspective we have to know what constitutes a "lie" in the biblical sense, it is not the same as people in an Ann Frank novel saying "no there are not Jews here" to protect them.
The law specifically states what a lie is and how that differs from mans definition of the term, bearing of false witness against someone Exodus 20:16.
So what was Paul's false witness that furthered the gospel and against whom?
We know that Paul was fond of quoting Greek literature of his time in preaching, mostly sayings attributed to Zeus*, when talking to Greeks about God.
So was that it? was that his false witness "lie"?
*Acts 17:23 "Unknown God", Acts 17:28 "for in him we live and move and have our being^", Acts 17:29 "we are the offspring of God".
^ Epimenides' poem Cretica, Cleanthes Hymn to Zeus, etc etc.
I am curious to hear what your associate finds as lies of the Apostles, because Jesus did warn of such a thing happening, Matthew 24:5, John 5:43, so we should be on the alert for such a thing.
keep shinin
jerm
Interesting. I will mull this over.
What do you guys think about God keeping Israel in the dark about why they were in the wilderness those forty years? Is His willful denial of information the same as lying?
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
What do you guys think about God keeping Israel in the dark about why they were in the wilderness those forty years? Is His willful denial of information the same as lying?
He did say, what is for us is for us, what isn't...ain't.
I won't tell people stuff that won't believe sometimes. I'm not holding back the truth, it's just that they aren't going to hear it because of unbelief, and they never want to hear what THEY do wrong. And He had to get the Egypt out of them. Those who came out seemed to have an inkling to go back into slavery...they were under the impression that being comfy now is what mattered. It wasn't. All for the lessons from a good Father that knows what is good for us way better than we do.
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
Somebody might answer that...buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, they probably don't know who you is. I was raised to believe that the only stupid question was the one not asked. IT's some of the answers that are stupid though, that's for sure. Is there a stupid anwers thread?
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
I'm sure you will know if it is a stupid question or not before then. He told Abraham, "stand like a man", if that is any help.
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